AU Mod: Mythic Hero

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by punkbass2000
There is nothing to lose here, really, provided no one is playing Chieftain anyway, or cares about their score.

My latest implementation idea would not require eliminating Chieftain, and would (presumably) increase scores on Demigod and higher (which no more than a handful of players currently play on in AU games) rather than affecting scores on Emperor and below (where the vast majority of people currently play).

[Dominae]

I was thinking, perhaps a better poll would be: "Would you play the new Mythic difficulty level?"

This way we can verify Nathan's argument that there is significant interest in this new difficulty, and that it is not just something Nathan and Theseus want. We also make the votes of players like vmxa1 more meaningful, because in the current poll players who are too good or not good enough to play Mythic are in an awkward position to decide for those that have a vested/play interest. Finally (Nathan, you will like this one most of all), we avoid "tyranny" by those players who would not play Mythic but nonetheless do not think it is a good idea for AU. The final say would be left to the tyranny of the panel, hopefully based on the results of this new poll.

(I remember, now, why the panel was created: to completely avoid situations like this. I guess Nathan's problem with my "attitude", or at least his externalization of it, would disappear if I were on the panel.)

Let me know what you all think.

[Tassadar500]

That sounds like a good idea, Dominae. Are we to consider these polls official, or is the AU Mod: Panel going to vote on it anyway, and just use these polls as indicators from the populous?

[Dominae]

By the way, this is not simply an attempt to have the results go "my way". I do honestly think that this second poll I just proposed above is the one that would allow the panel to make the most informed decision possible.

[Tassadar500]

At this point in time, "your way" is tied, or winning if you count VMXA1's vote.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Lord Nuclear
That sounds like a good idea, Dominae. Are we to consider these polls official, or is the AU Mod: Panel going to vote on it anyway, and just use these polls as indicators from the populous?

They are official indicators from the populous.

The way the panel was set up, the panelists would have the final say on what to include or not include in the mod, but they would rely heavily on the community's input to make their decisions. So the polls, while necessary, would not make policy. This has worked out well so far, because never have the panelists gone against the majority's wishes.

[nbarclay]

Proper procedure would be for the panel to make the final decision. The polls would merely provide input for the panel to consider.

I would suggest that the new poll be desiigned along the lines of the following:

Question: If we offered a "Mythic Hero" difficulty level in between Emperor and Demigod, would you be likely to use it?

Choices:

1) I would not use Mythic Hero because I am already beyond that level.
2) I would start using Mythic Hero immediately in at least some games.
3) I am not currently ready for Mythic Hero, but would be likely to use it in the future when and if I get good enough.
4) I would probably stay on Emperor until I am ready for Demigod even if Mythic Hero were available.
5) I'm not sure what I would do when and if I get good enough to play on a level above Emperor.

Edit: I added "in at least some games" to the second choice to reflect the fact that some people play on different levels at different times - especially in AU games, where some courses are designed to be easier than others.

[Tassadar500]

Should we wait until this poll is done to start a new one?

[nbarclay]

I don't see a need to wait untiil this poll is over, but I'd like to allow at least some time for possible discussion of what the contents of the new poll should be.

[Dominae]

Why not just go straight to the point and ask: "I would use Mythic because I find Emperor too easy and Demigod too difficult and/or not to my liking?"

Introducing choices for all the other types of AU players makes for a cluttered poll and excess data.

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Dominae
Why not just go straight to the point and ask: "I would use Mythic because I find Emperor too easy and Demigod too difficult and/or not to my liking?"

Because skill levels are not static. What if Theseus and I are the only ones, or very nearly the only ones, who would use Mythic Hero now, but a few others would find it useful in the future as their skill levels increase? Keep in mind that Mythic Hero has potential value not just for players who would stay on it more or less indefinitely, but also as an extra stepping stone on the path of players who do eventually want to get to Demigod and perhaps above. Just asking how many people would use the level at one particular point in time would miss significant chunks of the picture.

For that matter, are you so sure you wouldn't have used Mythic Hero yourself if it had been available at the point in your development where it would have been a good fit?

[Dominae]

You are asking people to vote based on what they may or may not think the usefulness of Mythic would be to them once they "graduate" to Emperor. I hardly think such players are qualified to judge if the Emperor-Demigod jump is too big, seeing as they have never experienced it. Your argument that you are "not alone" in feeling this way about Emperor implies that the other people feel this way about Emperor know what Emperor is all about.

Once you ask non-Emperor players if they think that Mythic is "a good idea", we are back to our old poll, which we already agreed is a bad idea (because people without a vested/play interest skew the votes).

All the panel needs to make its decision is knowledge of what percentage of Emperor-level players think Demigod is too big of a jump (thus, we should have a two-part poll); Monarch and lower-level players, it is assumed, will feel the same way about Emperor when they reach it in about the same proportion. With this information, the panel can decide whether the AU mod should or should not cater to this select group.

Might I point out that Monarch/Emperor players account for most of our player base, with about an even split between the two (according to recent DARs).

[Dominae]

Originally posted by nbarclay
For that matter, are you so sure you wouldn't have used Mythic Hero yourself if it had been available at the point in your development where it would have been a good fit?

It was never a good fit in my development; the existing difficulty levels were good enough for me. Pre-Conquests, there was such outcry about Emperor-Deity that Demigod was created, and I agreed with this decision. But I do not agree with Mythic for reasons I have already (tyranically) enumerated. Primarily, I do not think that a player should go up a difficulty level and still be as competitive in the early-game; Civ3 was not designed like this (notice that no efforts were ever made to make the late-game more "challenging" in the numerous patches), although it perhaps should have. This is my own opinion, and I am aware that others do not share it.

[nbarclay]

How about this:

Question: If a "Mythic Hero" difficulty level in between Emperor and Demigod were available, would you use it in the near future?

Answers:

1) Yes, I'm at or soon will be at a point where Emperor is easier than I want but Demigod is harder than I want.
2) No, I'm past the point where it would be useful now, but I probably would have found it useful previously if it were available.
3) No, I've played both Emperor and Demigod and prefer a jump directly from Emperor to Demigod.
4) No, I won't be ready to move beyond Emperor for a while.
5) Other (Please explain in the thread.)

That way we keep players who aren't at least close to ready to move beyond Emperor separate both from players who would use Mythic Hero (or would have used it in the past if it had been available) and from players who have played both Emperor and Demigod and think a straight jump is better.

[punkbass2000]

How about a "I would use it if I still played Single Player games" option?

EDIT: Oh, and would options 1 and 2 be aggregated? What about 3 and 4?