Next AU course

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Modo44
Dominae, the basic "martial threat" definition would mean, that the USA of today is such a threat.

Yup.

/me scampers off before being accused of posting OT stuff in the AU thread

[Arrian]

Dominae, the basic "martial threat" definition would mean, that the USA of today is such a threat.

We are. Our military is designed for "power-projection." That's a nice military term for being able to invade some country on the other side of the world.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

I've spent too much time in the OT. But I'm allowed to say it, whereas you're just a jealous anti-american canuck

/me dons flame-retardant suit and hunkers down

[Modo44]

But seriously. My point was, that no world war happened, even with the present "martial threats" of, at the very least, USA, Russia and China. I was just showing that the definition needed some tuning.

[Arrian]

No WWIII happened because of MAD. IMO, of course.

-Arrian

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Arrian
I've spent too much time in the OT. But I'm allowed to say it, whereas you're just a jealous anti-american canuck.

And you think there's no backstabbing between allies in real life - we have you SO fooled. Canuck Power!

NOW!

[Arrian]

I assume you've seen the United States of Canada/Jesusland map? Bear in mind I'm from Connecticut...

So, when shall I expect our liberators to arrive?

-Arrian

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Arrian
So, when shall I expect our liberators to arrive?

Like in Civ3, you will not know until it's too late. Think combat-Settlers and all that...

[Modo44]

Back to the discussion. Let me rephrase. No military ganging up on the big guys happened. Even if war would break out, it would be between two major powers, dragging their smaller allies into the conflict. As far as I am concerned, a world war of this sort is well within the possibilities of a diplogame.

But, it would not be the small people all of a sudden turning and trying to kick the big ones. Or would it?

[Arrian]

True, the "ganging up" that has occurred has been done by major powers to other major powers.

However, in the context of an 8-player game... is there such a thing as a truely minor power? Even the weakest remaining teams in the PTWDG could have an impact, and potentially be a part of a gang-up situation.

Whereas IRL, with over 200 countries, the weakest nations really could not be a part of any shot at the #1.

-Arrian

[Modo44]

Alright, let's make it the 8 countries, not important which ones besides the "big guy". Are you saying, that a war targetting the USA, and trying to completely destroy it, was possible? And I don't mean a war declared by a psycho like Hitler. I mean an alliance of a few countries, designed to destroy a whole nation. And alliance involving planning and execution of a major overseas invasion (the late PTWDG situation comes to mind...). Do you think this makes sense? Remember, there was a time, when Russia didn't have nuclear weapons yet, and the USA had too few to make a difference. Somehow, I'm not convinced it could have happened. Why? Well, the possibility was there, but it didn't.

[Arrian]

Destroy? Probably not, no. IRL, the most likely thing would probably be proxy warfare, or economic warfare.

There is no way to fight a proper proxy war in CivIII. This is because you cannot provide military aid (units) to other civs (with the exception of workers and bombard units, and that requires a work around). Therefore, if you want to knock somebody down a peg, you have to do it directly. If you're going to do it directly... well, hell, you probably want to make sure you destroy or cripple them, don't you?

Economic warfare is available, but extremely simplistic: you simple do not trade with the enemy.

-Arrian

[Modo44]

Sure, you can try to damage others, if you have reasons. But only one big alliance was made with the goal of destroying a civ. And the target was a really crazy dictatorship, that wanted to rule the world, not just be safe - Nazi Germany.

Even though the USA does possess a very strong military, and economy, nobody seriously considers their utter destruction, or even a serious crippling. It would be possible with an alliance of other major powers, even if with huge losses, but somehow, it wouldn't make sense. Sure, a little war for colonies here and there (Iraq, Iran, other-places-with-oil ), or a clever trap to discredit the big guy (Vietnam, anyone? ) is possible, but an all-out war isn't likely to happen, ever. The big difference is, in a PBEM, USA would be history by now... (Follwed shortly by Russia, and China...)

[Arrian]

Yeah, I'll agree with that.

-Arrian