AU 601: sabrewolf's DAR

[sabrewolf]

world war against greece again

775bc

well, andydog traded philosophy for worldwide peace. now i brought the people back to war against him. in the end the AI is profiting of this (by getting techs and money), but it still makes them concentrate resources on army and therefor slowing them down otherwise.

the big difference to last time: i didn't get the germanics to join.
a) because the only tech they didn't have is monarchy and i quite like the monopoly on this.
b) 13gpt is just too much for the fact that he won't send any mounted warriors over there.

the disadvantage is that the germanics are going to be even stronger now because they will rex while their neighbors won't. hopefully egypt and/or babylon will drag them into the war

[Tassadar500]

Go for SoZ

[sabrewolf]

economical calculation

the SoZ:
free units every 5 turns at a (subjective) unit "worth" of about 45s. i reckon at least 8 techs will be researched before metallurgy at a pace of maybe 12 turns per tech.
that's about 100 turns, spawning 20 ACs in that time. -->
estimated benefit: 20x45s=900shield
cost: 300s
net: +600s

the great library:
about 6-7 techs before education apears. averaging at 10 turns per tech (free techs for scientific speed things up) that's about 60-70 turns. if i can reduce research in that time to 0%, i can gain about +40g -->
estimated benefit: 65x40 = 2600s
cost: 400s
net: +2200s

here's not considered that i wouldn't lose time building "harrassment units" against germany and celtania, but otoh with the GL i gain time by rushing some things (a temple every 6 turns eg.)

of course, the distances make ACs better than legionaries (which are just too slow), but otoh legionaries can survive a counterattack more likely with their 3 defence than the AC with 2 (despite retreat possibility).

the GL would btw take 7 turns more than SoZ (i'm effective getting out about 14 shields per turn in veii).

so economically speaking, the GL would be the much better choice! from AI expansion point of view, it's the SoZ... but can it make up for the over 1500 sabre-points the GL gets more?

[Tassadar500]

The thing is though, you don't know if Greece has Ivory or not. If they were to get the SoZ, you'd be in trouble.

[sabrewolf]

SoZ isn't really useful against du human oponent. the unit just isn't strong or enough to be effective. and especially against city-fortified hoplites it'd be quite useless.

but i'm still going to build it (ETA: 5, at cost of city growth) as you recommmended. i figured they are going to be my best chance for MGLs (so far 2 elite victories)


now it's 690bc, and i'm really enjoying my GA. 2 cities with 17, respectively 16 production... that's something you seldom get this early on! i can pump out 30-costing units at a 2 turn pace. and even my outside cities have enough production to build temples and/or courthouses to make them useful in the post-GA-phase.

heinrich just demanded monarchy from me. i just sent him back to bavaria... and he smiled and left politely.

oh, and i may lose my first battle soon. my spearman is redlined defending a worker from a barb and another spearman is standing in the middle of carthagian lands and is facing an archer. even if i survive, the distance back is a long one.
oh, and my legionary pillaged the 2nd-last road in carthagian existance...

[vmxa1]

An AC army will be a nasty thing to face for some time, even with the UA mod. Better to have it than it than to face it.

[sabrewolf]

an AC army would be wonderful... but let me first get an army (the more the better )

i'd love to have a stack of 4 knight armies cutting through those hoplites like a hot knife through butter.

but as i can't attack cities, i'm stuck with attacking wandering units... that doesn't make too many battles and most of the time far away from my next city. so for the beginning, i'll be happy with one


andy is still having trouble with his internet connection, so this game is currently moving very slowly... it'll speed up when he gets it fixed again

[nbarclay]

Re: technology

Originally posted by sabrewolf
i'm not sure if he's going to do it this game because of the AU modifications of philosophy (virtually no trading value, only (slightly) cheaper than monarchy and the same price as construction...(

Actually, the increase in the cost of Philosophy gives it a very high trade value. But of course a civ has to be first to research it to get anything like the full advantage of that trade value.

[sabrewolf]

hey, nathan, already here?

i got philo first, but i didn't trade it to anybody because they had virtually nothing to offer. the best AI had something around 80g. so i decided to hold on to it for a while. too bad andy researched it about 4 turns after i did and bought himself free AND into tech parity.


btw guys: persia doesn't have any iron hooked up. is there any chance of sending it to them? will they ever build a harbour? immortals could make the hoplite's lives a bit more difficult

[nbarclay]

Keep in mind that until either you or Persia can see a coastal route between your harbor and theirs, their having a harbor doesn't matter. Also keep in mind that a trade route can't go through the territory of a civ you're at war with, and that until Astronomy, water trade routes have to stick to the coast. So while you're at war with Greece, your only option for a water trade route with Persia would probably be to have peace with Carthage and trade through Carthaginian waters. (Or if you and Carthage are at peace and things get hooked up properly, an overland trade route through Carthaginian territory might be possible at some point.)

[sabrewolf]

my curragh is already 90% around the continent (passing persian lands) and should establish coastal trade contact within 10 turns, except if a barb galley should appear, but chances are slim because there's not much unsettled land in this area (see attachment).

speaking of barbs: i'm halfway through a slow currency research and construction should soon come from an AI, so i presume there will be lots and lots of horsemen roaming roman territories that's why i'm sending out some units to clear away the huts.


oh, and as predicted, i lost my spearman to the carthagian archer... too bad, it did have a HP more

[sabrewolf]

the score at 670bc:
me: 277, andydog: 200... and i've still got the biggest part of the GA ahead of me while his is probably over by now


nbarclay: a condition to pass into the next DAR was the complete map of the pangea. how did you manage to reveal all of theseus' area? i doubt you guys are already at navigation this early in the game...

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
nbarclay: a condition to pass into the next DAR was the complete map of the pangea. how did you manage to reveal all of theseus' area? i doubt you guys are already at navigation this early in the game...

Oh ye of little faith.

I'm afraid you'll have to wait a bit for details, though, because when and if Theseus can trade for a world map, he'll be allowed to look here and I'd rather not say too much where he might see it.

[sabrewolf]

i had forgotten your peaceful beginning... that explains a lot towards the tech pace

oh well... we're up to 670bc and still 2 techs away from medieval ages. so i don't expect navigation until 1000ad or so. but then... greece and persia are scientific, germany and us romans are quite potent researchers too, so it may speed up a bit here aswell. i just hope egypt and babylon don't go to war against each other because i need them grabbing potential greek lands. and persia is currently doing a great job in expanding... too bad greece has a huge area behind their capital.

are there any specific screenshots i should post? any requests?

[sabrewolf]

another elite victory (archer vs. archer) and no MGL.

by now, carthagian cities must be dying of unhappiness... and probably the only thing they are producing are archers.

why? 4 cities: all size one (ok, i can't see the 4th city yet, as it's still in the fog, but i'm extrapolating). they never reach 2. that means either hannibal is rushing as soon as the city grows, or unhappiness is forcing them to use specialist citizens (a human would make it taxman or scientist at size 1, but the AI always takes entertainers).

in an old thread i read that the AI builds a certain ratio of attackers and defenders. and as NuMercs are only defensive (at this point i repeat: give NMs the "offensive" flag in the next AU mod), hannibal keeps creating archers... which i have no big problem controlling.