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Modern Armor: suggested change

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  • Modern Armor: suggested change

    I find the changes you have made in your mod very interesting, and will be incorporating some of them in my own tinkering. There are some ideas I'd like to share, which aren't realized yet because I've just begun tinkering with the editor and not even sure if they are at all possible.

    In CIV, unit strengths are of an ordinal value. Knights outclass horsemen but are outclassed by Cavalry themselves. This is fine when there is still progress, but once progress stops, there is no reason to build anything but the best: Modern Armor. Once researched, I find myself amassing large quantities of MA, rendering all ground personnel (and other units for that matter) obsolete. For me, this leads to a very boring endgame in which whoever has the most tanks wins.

    To my understanding, modern battles can be and are fought with armor, but to occupy territory one needs troops - not tanks. You don't even have to google up what happened to Russian tank columns in Grozny to realise that tanks are no good in urban settings. The strengths of armor only shine on the battlefield, not in the streets. Even the IDF, who frequently employ tanks to scare off would be insurgents, surround their tanks with many soldiers. Not because they happen to have a bunch of obsolete troops, but because they are *necessary* for dealing with angry mobs.

    Thus, to tackle these two wrongs (boring endgame and historical inaccuracy), I propose that Tanks, Panzers, and Modern Armors do not contribute to Military Police.

    One of the possible errs stemming from this solution that I foresee is the slower pace of conquest. To occupy newly conquered cities one would have to move his or her slow-moving infantry. I would like to see a landbased troop transport for this role, replacing Mechanized Infantry.

    Make Mechanized Infantry an Armored Personnel Carrier, 6/10/3, with transport capacity of 2 or 3.

    In my opinion, these two changes would diversify warfare in the Modern Age by discouraging sole use of Tanks and encouraging use of Infantry/Marines/Other.

  • #2
    Your first idea is not possible because in Civ3 all units with non-zero attack and defense ratings act as military police.

    Your second idea is not likely to be included because the AI doesn't know how to use ground transport units.

    In case you missed it, we have actually made a change in the AU mod that addresses the strength of Modern Armor: we reduced its defensive strength.

    Thanks for your input, but please check existing threads before opening new ones in the future.

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    • #3
      Ok, that too bad I guess. One thing I'm wondering: Ships do have a attack/defence rating > 0, but do not contribute to Military Police, how is this possible?

      Thanks for the reply anyhow, and sorry for barging in without doing a search.

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      • #4
        Good point, I should have said "all ground units with non-zero strength act as MP".

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        • #5
          Another thing is that adding "wheeled" to tanks makes them a less automatic choice.

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          • #6
            By that time, isn't pretty much everything roaded anyway?

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            • #7
              It would make sense in a scenario, that forbids settlement on certain terrain types.

              For instance, I played around with scenarios, where it wasn't allowed to settle on mountains (as it's normal), desert (except floodplains), tundra, jungle and forest (to avoid settlements on tundra forest). With Conquests, volcanoes and wetlands would to be added to that list. Since the AI doesn't chop or clean jungle or wetlands to get city sites, the player would have to restrict himself, too, and therefor I had the house rule never to chop/clean outside the radius of an existing city.

              I used the 3 billion years map option. This makes vast areas of mountains, desert, tundra, jungle and forest. The map size was slightly increased, to compensate the loss of settleable land. It made up for very interesting games with large, unsettled areas, resource colonies, connection roads to be guarded against ambushes of omnipresent barbarians (who were swordsmen). Of course nobody would bother with roading/RR'ing vast mountainous areas outside his cultural borders, so except of some rare "main roads" (I called them interstates) the mountains and jungles were unroaded. This made the "wheeled" flag very meaningful throughout the whole game, and you had to make very valid tactical choices concerning the unit mix of your armed forces, not to lose control in these areas.

              This is, of course, not an option for the AU mod, as it changes the game too much. I would, hovever, love to have such a PBEM game some day, among at least 5, preferably 6 players.

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              • #8
                Yes, the wheeled attribute does not make a huge difference in the modern age. Actually, that's why we made the change in the AU mod. If it were a big change it would not have been voted in, as the AI has problems dealing with it.

                However, with air bombardment during war, it's possible that some tiles become impassable to wheeled Modern Armor.

                More importantly, wheeled Modern Armor cannot unload onto mountains (even roaded) from transports to get a 100% defensive bonus in the first turn of an invasion.

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                • #9
                  SR, that sounds like a very fun mod that I may have to try out for a more... er, less... uh, non-cookie-cutter game. Thanks for posting it.
                  "Just once, do me a favor, don't play Gray, don't even play Dark... I want to see Center-of-a-Black-Hole Side!!! " - Theseus nee rpodos

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                  • #10
                    Sir Ralph: I would be up for that PBEM. Are you prepared to start it anytime, or does "some day" mean "later"?
                    And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...

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                    • #11
                      Anytime. Even if it were Conquests.

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                      • #12
                        I'd be up for that too!

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                        • #13
                          Ducki PM'd me, he's also in. We need 1 or (preferably) 2 more players. Then we can discuss some details and start.

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                          • #14
                            Yeah, I could probably use some learnin'.
                            "Just once, do me a favor, don't play Gray, don't even play Dark... I want to see Center-of-a-Black-Hole Side!!! " - Theseus nee rpodos

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                            • #15
                              why not. Just "retired" this week and I should have time for another game.
                              Illegitimi Non Carborundum

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