AU Mod: Re-balancing the power of Armies

[alexman]

Yeah, unfortunately the movement bonus is hard-coded in C3C.

[Jaybe]

Re: Reduce Army transport capacity to 1!

This is as big a change as my "replace all artillery units with 'Assault' units" change, yet simpler because it is just an editor tweak (no complications of adding new units to the game)!

Also as ..., but worthy of saving the post on the computer and making a printout.

[Dominae]

You could still use the The Pentagon to make 2-unit Armies, right?

[player1]

Why not just remove ability of MilA wonder to produce armies?

That way, human will still have some advanage, but Military trait won'y be nerfed and those armies will become obsolete with time. Not to mention all those funnel of death/doom exploits would be fixed.

[alexman]

On the Pentagon allowing an extra unit, my thinking was no, but I'm not sure. It would become an even more powerful wonder by doubling the units in an Army... [edit: not to mention that the AI would have the same problem populating its Armies]

Player1, you can always disband your obsolete Armies to get new ones. You don't even need the MA to abuse the AI with Armies as they currently are, since MGLs usually come very easily in the Industrial Age.

[Theseus]

Interesting idea, alexman!! I instinctively like the idea as a way to deal with the movement problem.

I don't like nerfing Armies quite so heavy-handedly... would it be possible to try your suggestion, but with higher hps?

I'm gonna poke around in the editor to see if I have any other thoughts.

[alexman]

Yes, it's possible. Great idea!
You just give the Army unit bonus HP and it works.

Still, we should not overdo it to the point where the HPs are tripled like in stock. The AI is afraid to attack units with high HP more than it should be, hence the "funnel of doom" exploit.

By the way, Theseus, you surprise me with your enthusiasm for this idea. You realize it means the end of mixed armies, right?

[lockstep]

If C3C's AI really is that broken, 1-unit armies are the way to go. Theseus' hp-bonus idea is also great - maybe +4 hitpoints will do the trick.

Furthermore, the Pentagon's ability to add another unit to armies must be removed to ensure that the AI uses its armies. As I don't like to eliminate a small wonder, we could give the Pentagon the 'improved army' flag that we removed from the Military Academy - with 1-unit armies, this flag shouldn't be that unbalancing anymore.

[alexman]

Originally posted by lockstep
give the Pentagon the 'improved army' flag that we removed from the Military Academy

That's what I was thinking too.

[Theseus]

Originally posted by alexman
Yes, it's possible. Great idea!
You just give the Army unit bonus HP and it works.

Still, we should not overdo it to the point where the HPs are tripled like in stock. The AI is afraid to attack units with high HP more than it should be, hence the "funnel of doom" exploit.

By the way, Theseus, you surprise me with your enthusiasm for this idea. You realize it means the end of mixed armies, right?

Yes, quite the bummer... mostly regarding salvaging older unit Armies with upgrades over time.

Re offensive / defensive capabilities, I'll just have to develop some new thinking on multiple Army stacvk configuration.

I say we try it first with 4 bonus hps.

What was the "improved army" flag again?

[player1]

Hmm...
+4hp single unit army, "improved army flag" Pentagon, and AU version of MilAcademy.

It could work.
(but is so much different then original rules)



P.S.
Improved army flag makes armies get bonus equal to sum of attacks divided by 4 instead of 6.

[lockstep]

Originally posted by player1
Improved army flag makes armies get bonus equal to sum of attacks divided by 4 instead of 6.

Only that there isn't really a 'sum' of attacks if the army contains only one unit.

Building the Pentagon would result in +25% attack strength instead of +17% for 1-unit-armies.

[player1]

Not much, probably would need reduction of price for that wonder (let's say 300 shields).

[alexman]

So, to summarize the proposal under consideration:

• Army: Add 4 bonus HP
• Army: Reduce transport capacity to 1
• Pentagon: Replace 'Build Larger Armies' flag by 'Increased Army Value'
• Reduce cities needed to support an army to 1

Voting in a week.

[Theseus]

I hope this works... it's be great to see frequent AI use of Armies again!