AU501 - DAR3: Contact with all other civs

[ducki]

Here's another thing that seems "odd" about this game - my research rate seems faster than it should be.
Techs like Education, Printing Press, Banking, Astronomy - all at the rate where noone else knows them - are taking on average only about 7-8 turns, sometimes down to 5 turns if I MM an awful lot of scientists.

Is this because I have only two non-coastal cities and therefore extra commerce from every city but my capitol and a "land-grab" city?


Also, when I got contact with England, the embassy was cheap(only 30-40 gold, IIRC, so I went ahead and got one. Guess what she's building. In her capitol. Seriously, just guess.








A courthouse. She _just_ hit the middle ages, but has been building it for a while. Isn't that planning a bit too far ahead for her inevitable descent into communism? Surely she could be building something else, anything else?
I have a screenie of it and I can't think of any "good" reason for the AI to do that in that city at that point in time.


Mainly, though, my research seems much faster than "normal" games, as a branch-leader(The Ducth took Gunpowder while I was getting PrintingPress and Education, though Russia got Edu first.) Very odd.

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by ducki
Mainly, though, my research seems much faster than "normal" games, as a branch-leader(The Ducth took Gunpowder while I was getting PrintingPress and Education, though Russia got Edu first.) Very odd.

I've noticed the same thing in my game. I'm playing emperor, but my tech research has been through the roof. As a Republic, I've essentially controlled most of the tech research and trading throughout the middle ages, despite taking a slow-research detour to chivalry to build up almost 7000 gold and bunches of horsemen for upgrade. One other thing I've noticed in my game is that my three main tech competitors (Dutch, Sumerians, and Mayans) have all seemed to be concentrating on the upper tier techs (education, etc.). By going on the lower tier I've been able to trade for all upper tier techs along with most all the luxuries, etc. and maintain a moderately lengthy war against the Hittites without needing to use the lux slider too much, and I odn't even have so much as temples in most of my cities.

BTW, this will all come out in DAR 4 (including the reason the Hittite war was longer than it should have been), but since the observation was made in this thread I continued that.

[alexman]

Originally posted by ducki
Here's another thing that seems "odd" about this game - my research rate seems faster than it should be.

It's because the tech rate for this game (so probably the OCN too) is for a standard map. Not a big deal.

By the way, I agree about the power of the seafaring trait. Even with the AU Mod where ocean (and sea for curraghs) costs double, suicide ships are very much worth the small risk. I really hope they remove the reduced sinking chance for seafaring.

[ducki]

Well, I've been in Monarchy, not Republic, and still pulling off fast research. (I'll be switching to Demo as soon as I can but needed the unit support for my war.)

Even with a Standard size tech rate on a Large size map, my empire is not much, if any, actually, larger than on a Standard size map by this time, normally. And with an OCN set for smaller than the mapsize, shouldn't corruption be worse, slowing research, not speeding it? I'm just guessing here.

I hope they do not remove reduced sinking - I think we've seen enough variation in these DARs to see that a determined suicider will find a way, no matter what the cost, while the more laid-back explorer has his limits and will not continue to send ship after ship to hang with Davey Jones. Can it be abused? Sure. But that's the player's perogative, IMO.

[alexman]

The current game is just like a 100x100 map for tech rate and rank corruption, but it has less distance corruption. Couple that with the fact that you get more commerce from all the coastal cities, and you have a fast tech pace.

Reduced sinking chance is already included in the increased movement. No need to make it even lower, IMO.

[Cort Haus]

I'm not one for suicide ships as a matter of policy. In this game I saw the Mayan's border so went for it.

[jshelr]

Originally posted by Rhothaerill


I've noticed the same thing in my game. I'm playing emperor, but my tech research has been through the roof.

I guess I agree that the tech rate is high from a different perspective. We built markets and lately banks in all core cities and bought tech from civs just behind the tech leaders. Normally, this easily keeps you close to the lead on Emperor level and uses shields for units, while saving on maintance gold as well. This game the tech rate of the Dutch has been fast enough to keep a multiple tech lead despite us goosing the trailing civs with gold via tech buys.

[jshelr]

By the way, I got into the thread to offer the observation that the AI really sucks at clearing swamps and jungle, and that it is killing them in this game.

[ducki]

Originally posted by jshelr
I guess I agree that the tech rate is high from a different perspective. We built markets and lately banks in all core cities and bought tech from civs just behind the tech leaders.

My high-speed tech rate has been going since before I had markets in more than 1 or 2 cities. In fact, I would almost say it happened exactly on the switch from Ancient to Middle Age - alexman, is there any chance that the costs for the Ancient Age are normal but the later ages are low?

Normally, this easily keeps you close to the lead on Emperor level and uses shields for units, while saving on maintance gold as well.

I'm also on Emperor and while I'm over the allowed units number, I'm still able to pull a profit, run 90% science and 10% lux only using 1 or 2 Scientists all the time with rare MMing on 2 or 3 techs to get a 1-turn boost.

This game the tech rate of the Dutch has been fast enough to keep a multiple tech lead despite us goosing the trailing civs with gold via tech buys.

My Dutch have also been fast, but I've been at parity with them since the Currency/Construction point The Russians have caught up with us, most likely due to Libraries and my trading techs down to them since they actually have money to pay.

It's really baffling to me, but there are enough variables that it's difficult for me to pin any one of them down.
-The AU Mod
-Archipelago(which I never play)
-Large map instead of my normal Standard
-Lots of small blocs of AI that I can trade between(well, until I sold Printing Press and contacts) with me and 2 other AIs researching strongly and everyone else stagnating.
-Emperor level - I'm still new to it and have not completed one yet (but have played a lot through the Middle Ages and this is just faster than the others)
-Cheap research buildings - I don't play scientific very often
-A Forbidden Palace actually built, but the race was "too" fast even before then, before I'd conquered Japan, before I even had enough cities to build one, before I had as many cities as I usually have on Standard Continent maps

I'm glad it's not just me that thinks it's faster than normal, and alexman said it's set to research like a Standard map - even though I still contend my research is faster than my normal standard maps.

Anyway, I'd better stop rambling so


Edit:

By the way, I got into the thread to offer the observation that the AI really sucks at clearing swamps and jungle, and that it is killing them in this game.

Yes, yes they do. Of course, this could be more that they suck at building enough workers - is the "build often" flag for workers in this version of the mod? If so, maybe we can get a "build super-ultra-mega often until not needed then join to small towns" flag added to the editor.

[jshelr]

I was disappointed in the turn to the industrial era.

As noted above, we were maybe four required techs behind when finishing banks sent our gpt way up. At that point, we were able to use lux gained via wars and gold to quickly buy our way through the end of the middle ages, all without buying anything from the leading Dutch.

Here's why I'm disappointed. On getting the free tech (medicine) I found the Dutch had no techs on the way to ToE. They are probaby wandering around in the nationalism tech swamp. They did have nationalism and are probaby researching commie and facism.

The lack of research direction by the AI takes the fun out of the game at this point. We can probably sit in republic and opportunistically buy tech until a sprint to scientific method becomes possible. I'll start building libraries around now to make sure the sprint is efficient, but the only trick is really to start the prebuild on time.

[alexman]

It's virtually impossible to keep the AI from researching Nationalism first. But I would be surprised if they go for Communism/Fascism after that. From my tests, they typically have a 7% chance of going for each of those optional techs after Nationalism, while they have a 50% chance to go for Steam Power. Perhaps the Dutch scientists slowed down in the Industrial Age. Are they at war?

Oh well, even if all AI beelined to Scientific Method, your prebuilds would probably get you the ToE, so don't worry about it so much!

Subliminal message to AU mod panel:
m o v e T h e o r y o f E v o l u t i o n t o M o d e r n A g e

[ducki]

non-subliminal - swap ToE and Longevity

(Edit: I meant the non-modded Longevity.)

[Jaybe]

I was playing a game today in which an AI built ToE! I was scared that I would lose Hoover, but they didn't even take Atomic Theory for their troubles (they probably took the road to combustion).

[Dominae]

Originally posted by alexman
Subliminal message to AU mod panel:
m o v e T h e o r y o f E v o l u t i o n t o M o d e r n A g e

/me 's left eye twitches...

[jshelr]

The Dutch pulled a sneak attack on our NW island holdings in 920AD. We happened to be passing by with a flotilla of dromons to steal some coal from the rump city of the Hittites on a further island. So, we landed a defense force and made alliances with the UK, Russia, and the Maya. Not much is likely to happen but we’ll build a few home-front cavs for safety.

The Maya and Russians have opted for longevity which could cascade to ToE I suppose. But we should get to Scientific Method ahead of them. Can’t see the Dutch tech choices yet. Longevity should be more helpful to the AI than to the closely spaced cities of the human player.

Alexman's idea is interesting.

After Sanitation the boys and girls researched ironclads. It will be interesting to see if bombardment from the Dromon can wound an ironclad and send it home for repairs.