AU mod: Longevity

[ZargonX]

I think it will work

My Vote: Yes

[lockstep]

(I'm assuming this means also a reduction of shield costs to 800, so: )

YES.

[Stuie]

Originally posted by lockstep
(I'm assuming this means also a reduction of shield costs to 800....)

Same assumption: Yes.

[Theseus]

Yes.

[Nor Me]

Yes.

[Dominae]

Still not much experience with this change, but what I've seen has been positive.

Yes.

[Jaguar]

I like this change. Mostly because it makes the AI prioritize sanitation more.

[Dominae]

I'm not sure what I was thinking above when I voted Yes.

Please change my vote to No on this issue.


Dominae

[ducki]

Should this wonder remain a Modern wonder:
Instead of doubling growth, what if it granted a hospital in all continental cities?

It would still foster growth, it would still have the potential downside of more growth than you want, and what could help the AI more than saving it having to build hospitals all over the place, at least in this instance?

[alexman]

The main reason for questioning the value of Longevity under stock rules is that by the time Longevity becomes available, most of your cities have reached their maximum size.

If the above assumption about city size is not valid, then there is no reason to change anything about Longevity.

If it is valid, then Hospitals will not help more than the existing ability of the Wonder.

[ducki]

Ah, good point alexman.
I only have one question in response.

most of your cities have reached their maximum size

Are we talking player, AI, or both?
If the AI is not (typically) maxed out and this wonder provides measurable benefit to the AI, does it still need changing?

(Not being snarky. Completely earnest here.)

[sabrewolf]

hospitals do cost 2gpt (or is it 3?) .... with an empire of lets say 60 cities (large size controlling a big part of the world) it could save you 120g per turn... not as great as adam smith's, but better than nothing. especially if you consider just needing 8 turns to compensate the 1000 shield building cost

[Jaguar]

I've also tried the stay in modern, free hospital in every city solution. I think it would be a bit more in the spirit of the mod, but both are good changes.

[nbarclay]

With the increased power of specialists in C3C, a free hospital in every city in the modern era would tend to be significantly more worthwhile than it was in previous versions. At the very least, you would save the maintenance costs on the hospitals you've already built. But consider the case of a city with only 12 tiles available to work but that has a little extra food and could grow bigger with specialists, or a coastal city that could work an extra sea tile or two. (Those of us who adopt tight build patterns can easily get into such situations.) A hospital might not be worth the shields to build in light of its normal maintenance cost, but a free one would still be worthwhile. Similarly, in outlying areas on a large land mass (or on a land mass other than the home or FP continent if part of the land mass has good enough production to build a wonder), getting a free hospital so cities that are more valuable as homes for specialists than as conventional production centers can grow bigger could be useful.

I think that's a much better solution than increasing the power of wonders available in the industrial age. In the early game, wonders carry such a high opportunity cost in lost REXing or early military ability that human players often don't even try to compete for them. In the medieval era, wonder cascades often force players to choose which wonders they want and which they're willing to let an AI have. But industrial era wonders tend to have little opportunity cost associated with building them, and the relatively small number (even with Longevity moved) makes it a lot easier to avoid cascades using well-timed prebuilds. Thus, far too often, an extra industrial wonder serves only to help the human player, not to help the AIs, which is directly contrary to one of the stated purposes of the AU Mod. Changing the effect of Longevity to free hospitals in the modern era would not have that problem, and would be a much more fundamentally conservative change.

Nathan