Apolyton University Mod: C3C version

[Aqualung71]

Re: Apolyton University Mod: C3C version

Originally posted by alexman

Philosophy

The main purpose of the AU mod is to challenge the player with a need for deeper strategy, while changing as little as possible. Deeper strategy is accomplished by presenting the player with more non-trivial decisions, and by improving the AI.

Now I've finished my first AU game and have a better understanding of the concept, I have a question that may help in in my approach to AU in future.

I enjoyed pretty much all the mods and I think they improved the game noticeably. Certain mods (such as the changes to Cavalry and Infantry attack values) definitely changed the way I play the game while others (such as resource positioning, though not really a "mod") served to highlight certain features and make you think more about your game.

So:

Is AU designed simply to teach us more about Civ3 strategy in general or is it also an attempt to improve the official version of the game by providing suggestions to the developers for future patches or ideas for Civ4?

I think the mods definitely improved the game in terms of making it more enjoyable and "fairer" to both the human and the AI (particularly the way it seemed to push the AI in certain directions), but they often change the way you play the game which may not help much if you are going to go back to stock rules at some point. I guess this is why some players choose to play with stock rules.

[alexman]

That's a good question. I would say that the AU's goal is to study strategy. The lessons learned under stock rules will be slightly different than with the mod.

The AU mod's goal is to improve the game, while still preserving stock feel. I don't think it's possible to make a change that will not affect players' strategy compared to stock to a certain extent. Even if there is no change to gameplay, and you only change the AI's behavior, for example, players who know the AI tendencies in stock rules will change their approach to the game.

[ducki]

Originally posted by alexman
The AU mod's goal is to improve the game, while still preserving stock feel.

This is, IMO, the most subjective part of the mod. If you read through some of the threads on the C3C mod changes, it becomes apparent that there are a lot of different opinions on what "stock feel" is and how much deviation is too much.

For that reason alone, I am glad we have a panel now, so that there is a spread of that subjective "what is stock feel" instead of just 1 or 2 decisionmakers.

Personally, I think we've succeeded thus far - by the same token, I think you'd have to be fairly extreme to alter the inherent feel of the game, mostly because the design is so good, it's hard to **** it up unless you really try.

[Aqualung71]

Originally posted by alexman
The AU mod's goal is to improve the game, while still preserving stock feel.

And it's precisely for that reason that I hope the Firaxis people pay close attention to the AU forum and treat it as a resource of ideas for logical and "do-able" game improvements, as it's clear that a lot of thought and discussions on pros and cons happens before the game is modded.

From what I've read, it seems that Firaxis have picked up on some things implemented here in the past, so I hope it continues.

[alexman]

This just in:

Rumor has it that the next official patch (1.18?) will include the AU mod change of removing the Electronics requirement from Motorized Transportation!!

By the way, it will also completely remove the Radio technology, move Radar towers to Advanced Flight, and add Electronics to the requirements of Advanced Flight.

How's that for proof of Firaxis listening to us?

[Stuie]

Wow!! That's amazing. Nice to see the discussions here generating changes to the core game.

to everyone here at AU.

As for Radio, I never liked it as a tech; good riddance.

[Risa]

Oh my GOD!

*calm down, calm down*

I can say nothing now. Just a few more days...

[ZargonX]

Heh, I think we must have industry spies among us

[sabrewolf]

Heh, I think we must have industry spies among us

maybe

it's lovely to know that the community has a voice, especially considering that some changes are quite radical (scrapping radio, making advanced flight worth researching, etc)

[Dominae]

Originally posted by alexman
Rumor has it that the next official patch (1.18?) will include the AU mod change of removing the Electronics requirement from Motorized Transportation!!

Thumbs up to alexman for proposing it in the first place!

Now I will be very angry if my pleas of fixing Philosophy and the Theory of Evolution go unnoticed...




Dominae

[ducki]

"Rumor"? What "rumor"?
That's a big change, I'm glad to see - even if it is just rumor - Firaxis willing to make radical changes that are more subtle(can I put those two phrases together?) than a broken corruption model.

Now, if we can just get some of the community artists to make Aerial View wonder graphics for the new stuff and have Firaxis fix the Aerial View for scenarios, I might just be the happiest guy on earth.

Oh, and AI Armies. And mixed-unit same-attribute armies(berserker+marines)

Man, another beta patch already? Whooo! Let's implement more mod stuff so they'll patch it in!

[sabrewolf]

dominae:
i wouldn't be surprised if that (urgently needed) change won't be implemented.

removing and changing requirements is an editor-related thing, while the decision, which techs get chosen, is a programming-related modification.

for the same reason the corruption issue hasn't been touched.

the philosophy issue maybe also wasn't taken on, because the community hasn't managed to unanimously agree on a solution (random tech, no tech, cheapest tech, make it optional, change cost, etc).

i think the only real programming currently done for multiplaying...

i hope that lastest the june patch will have everything else

[lockstep]

Originally posted by alexman
Rumor has it that the next official patch (1.18?) will include the AU mod change of removing the Electronics requirement from Motorized Transportation!!

This is EXCELLENT news!

[ducki]

I don't think the community will ever agree on a solution to ToE and Philo because there are so many different types of players that want a different experience. Lack of consensus would lead me to a more flexible/robust editor and/or game options screen. Or a "mini" editor for folks that want to change a couple of rules/setting but are intimidated by the editor - I know I'm intimidated, but part of that is the nature of most editors these days - short on docs, a GUI that is all "business", etc. Maybe they could release the editor's API and then a lot of these issues with too many solutions could be handled by the community with a secondary rules/options editor geared toward the more casual players instead of us codemonkeys/geeks.


I don't imagine this rumor is "public" anywhere, eh? Like a Jesse/Tavis post somewhere? (Hey, I can dream, can't I?)
Thanks for the pseudo-news, alexman!

[Aqualung71]

What happened to 1.16 and 1.17? Or have I been asleepatthewheel?

Anyway, great news - I think the AU Mod to Motorized Transportation was brilliant: it managed to be logical, very subtle, astoundingly simple, while extending strategic depth!

On the other hand, I'm ambivalent towards scrapping Radio. I'm not sure how adding the Electronics requirement to AF will make humans research it more if it's still optional. After all, it currently requires Radio which will now be scrapped, so no net change there. Not sure about other players, but for me Radar Towers come way too late to be of much use, and during invasions they are the first thing I bombard before sending in the ground forces. Still, the AI uses them so to the extent they make the AI more competitive that's good. So, want humans to research it? Make it required.