Apolyton University Mod (PTW version)

[Dominae]

Thought I'd just throw out some ideas for helping the Guerilla unit (for AI purposes, mostly):

1. Remove "Requires Support" flag.

This makes the unit slightly better in the AIs hands. The potential downfall is that the human player could conceivably exploit this (for example, by fielding huge armies at low cost when in representative governments). The situation gets worse when you consider that you can Draft Guerillas. But, Guerillas still suck compared to Infantry (lower Attack and Defense, same cost).

2. Add zero-range Bombard ability

Just like we did with Archers and Longbowmen (and their UU counterparts). This helps the AI, since it always seems to have a couple of Guerillas just "hanging out" in a stack of units, where Infantry usually attack and defend first.

3. Add "Ignores Movement Cost" for Forest, Jungle

This change deviates from stock Civ3 significantly, but it's still not that interesting. The AI and the human player would make pretty good use of this ability, but those terrain types are largely gone in the Industrial age. Maybe the Guerilla could ignore movement cost in Hills...

4. Reduce cost of Guerilla to 8

Self-explanatory. Again, I think, uninteresting.


That's all I can think of for now. alexman's solution (Guerilla->Infantry upgrade) is a good one, but ideally Guerillas should serve a more important function. What would be really great is if we could tell the AI not to build the stupid things when it has Rubber available.


Dominae

[Nor Me]

Originally posted by alexman
Wild guess: When the AI needs a unit, it evaluates all the possible units it can build for that purpose, and chooses one. If it already has many of that type, it might choose a less effective one, because if the AI always built the best unit according to its evaluation, it would end up being unbalanced or at least predictable.

Are you sure there isn't a random factor?
I did a few tests for what the governor suggested building in the first city in 1.29f.
Two equal units were built equally often.
Making one unit amphibious appeared to make it be built more often but not always.

Of course then giving one unit an operational range made it appear to always be built so somethings changed.

[Nor Me]

Originally posted by Dominae
3. Add "Ignores Movement Cost" for Forest, Jungle

This change deviates from stock Civ3 significantly, but it's still not that interesting. The AI and the human player would make pretty good use of this ability, but those terrain types are largely gone in the Industrial age. Maybe the Guerilla could ignore movement cost in Hills...

I may be supid but what difference does this make?

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Nor Me
I may be supid but what difference does this make?

Nay, sir, it is I that is stupid. With only 1 movement point, Guerillas can't really take advantage of reduced movement costs of terrain. Sorry, bad suggestion on my part.


Dominae

[BRC]

1. Remove "Requires Support" flag.

Exploitable.

2. Add zero-range Bombard ability

It would keep with the flavor of the mod.

3. Add "Ignores Movement Cost" for Forest, Jungle

I was wondering about this too, just with Hills, or Mountains.... also.

4. Reduce cost of Guerilla to 8

You're right. Boring.

alexman's solution (Guerilla->Infantry upgrade) is a good one

It is good. I just would like to see something else.

but ideally Guerillas should serve a more important function

I think that Guerrillas could be made to pull off some great strategic attack. The marines can attack cities directly from ships. This does give them use, even if it's limited. I envision a similiar use for Guerrillas. Sneaking through the jungle, hills, or whatever to lay seige on a city.

[BRC]

I may be supid but what difference does this make?

My fault too. What about with 2 movement points???

[Dominae]

Actually I like the Guerilla unit as is. I just don't like that the AI builds it when its not supposed to. My suggestions are just in hopes of reducing this weakness.

Come to think of it, here's another possibility:

5. Give Guerillas 1 bonus HP.

Again, slightly reduces the uselessness of Guerilla when Infantry are available.


Dominae

[BRC]

5. Give Guerillas 1 bonus HP.

Without getting into anything, I would prefer the upgrade solution to anything that involved playing with HP's. Just my opinion.

[alexman]

Dominae, thanks for the ideas!

Originally posted by Dominae
1. Remove "Requires Support" flag.

This might not help the AI as much as you think. The AI already gets little-known, level-dependent bonuses for unit support, so it may be operating at zero unit cost in the first place. But it's realistic, and would give the human somewhat of a choice to build Guerillas even when he has rubber.

2. Add zero-range Bombard ability

This is my favorite, especially since Guerillas are in the Archer-Longbowman upgrade path, who have this ability. It would definitely give Guerillas a distinct functionality without changing the game too much.

I just hope that giving Guerillas a special ability like this one will not make the AI build them more often. I doubt it.

4. Reduce cost of Guerilla to 8
5. Give Guerillas 1 bonus HP.

These are OK too, as long as the AI doesn't build more Guerillas as a result. I still prefer #2.

I guess I need to do some tests again tonight before we decide...

Originally posted by Nor Me
Are you sure there isn't a random factor?
I did a few tests for what the governor suggested building in the first city in 1.29f.
Two equal units were built equally often.

I'm not sure of anything, as "Wild Guess" usually implies! Please share information more often from these tests of yours!

[BRC]

This is my favorite, especially since Guerillas are in the Archer-Longbowman upgrade path, who have this ability. It would definitely give Guerillas a distinct functionality without changing the game too much.

I'm for this here. Let's do the bombard thing. That seems to me the best way to do it. Keep Guerrillas "in the game", and have a little fun with them.

[BRC]

is it good Alex??

[alexman]

No tests yet, but I updated the initial post anyway.

[player1]

Why just not make a "test version" and "official release" later, if changes are succesfull.

[alexman]

Because the whole thing is a big test!

The "official" versions are played with the AU games.

[Theseus]

I like the zero-bombard idea, pending what the AI then does.

Coupla other thoughts:

* alexman,, your ongoing devotion to this Mod is just GREAT, and the level of attention and number of posts it gets just blow me away.

* Firaxis should be using / highlighting the AU Mod in some way.