AU102: All we're sayin' is give peace a chance

[Catt]

I'm far enough along in the game that spoliers won't spoil it for me. I will post a summary (with screenshots!) when I'm finished (maybe tonight), but just thought I'd chime in with some real differences in my game (standard version) from the others listed.

China is the big dog, having eliminated Germany in the early middle ages (with Riders, I suspect), and well on its way to settling much of the former Germany (declared war on India when India had settled approximately 3 cities in the former German lands). I don't think there's any way I will be able to outresearch China to the UN unless Mao bogs down in unending warfare.

France and Egypt went to war early. Fought to a draw. Don't recall the histograph, but Joan and Hiawatha control about equal empires, with Cleo just slightly smaller (all of which makes me nervous as my undefended and larger empire must look pretty inviting).

France (only one or two turns after I traded a luxury, an RoP, and a bunch of gold for a wonder-enabling tech Joan beat me to) landed a single swordsman next to my city which built both the Colussus and the Great Lighthouse. Next turn she took the city - immediately faced an alliance of Hippie Sam, Cleo and Hiawatha. City flipped back to me before the war concluded.

A real summary when I conclude, but a couple of thoughts: (1) the scenario sounded really fun to me, but I'm actually not enjoying it all the much. I haven't paid nearly enough attention to tile improvements, city laborer allocation and pre-builds, simply because of a lack of interest. And (2) the little touches you've put in are great alexman ("We Love the Hippie Day")

Catt

[alexman]

Sorry to hear you're not having fun, Catt.
I agree, it kinda has the feel of an OCC game, but it goes slower.

As for the AI build priorities in the two versions, I checked a couple of saves, and it doesn't make much sense to me so far. It seems that the AI builds are influenced much more by geography and actions of neighbors, than it is by the "build-often" list.

Some observations from 50 A.D.:

1. France put a big emphasis on libraries in both versions, building them before temples. Perhaps the key to her power?
2. Nobody yet built any harbors, courthouses, or marketplaces, despite being in the Middle Ages.
3. In the entire world outside the USA, there was only one granary. It was in a Chinese city. There's nothing wrong with that... except that it was in the killer version, where growth is no longer in their build list!
4. Perhaps the build priorities come into play later. So far both versions of the AI have been focusing on building settlers and military units to expand as fast as possible.

[Killerdaffy]

[*]Nobody yet built any harbors, courthouses, or marketplaces, despite being in the Middle Ages.[/list][/QUOTE]

Funny, I replayed the standard version and couldn't trade with the Chinese until about Nationalism because they hadn't built a single harbor yet. The Germans were down to one city and needed until Rocketry to build one.

[Arrian]

Alexman,

I'm glad you made it "easy." I'd hate to see hard

Catt,

Not enjoying it, huh? That's too bad. Maybe you'll like the next AU challenge better.

For some reason, I really enjoyed this one. I was a man on a mission. I think I liked it so much because it's been a loooooooong time since I played "peaceful builder" style.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Ooh, crossposts.

Alexman,

No markets or courthouses? Damn! That was the whole POINT (production/wealth or trade) right? Wierd.

My AI's clearly built their harbors, since I was able to trade with them all right away once navigation was out there. That was key, as a matter of fact.

-Arrian

[alexman]

Originally posted by Arrian
My AI's clearly built their harbors, since I was able to trade with them all right away once navigation was out there.

I think the problem was that I was looking too early. At the first part of the middle ages (50 A.D.) most of their cities had NO improvements because they basically just finished expanding. I'll look at later saves this evening.

[Theseus]

HOLY MAMA!!

I got up to building the TOE last night, and had to stop.

I'm finally in the tech lead, and am selling Atomic Theory and Electronics... I just sold Egypt Atomic Theory for 54 gpt + 1370 gold, and now this!!!

I ain't taking chances... she can have it for 165 gpt...

[Theseus]

Oops sorry, can;t read it... she's offering me 265 gpt!!

[Harovan]

I give up my game, because I can't win it anymore. Here is my story:

I planned to try to win this one by culture with 100000 points. Therefor, I didn't care much about research, I traded advances up to Education and stopped researching then. At this point, I had the whole southern part of my continent settled, and 4 luxuries connected. Now I begun to build cities between the existing ones. 1 tile apart, tightest. Each city got the build order Temple, Library, University, Cathedral, Colosseum. After a while, I had about 80 cities. Since I was researching with only 1 scientist and put 100% into taxes, I could buy improvements fairly quick.

Soon after 1000AD Egypt attacked me suddenly and without a visible reason. Cleo had been polite, we were trading nicely and I in no way had bankrupted her or so. But she attacked. I made alliances against her with France and the Iroquois, but that didn't help much. She took 9 of my cities, before I could finally make peace, violating alliances, of course. With luxury gifts to my former allies, I got them slowly back to polite.

In the following time, the taken cities slowly began to flip back. By 1800, 4 of them were mine again. I disbanded the legionaries, making libraries in the cities. Meanwhile some of the AI civs were in the modern age already, while I was still in the medieval age. When my overall culture was about 80000 and I was making about 700 per turn, the Chinese came over me, again without any visible reason. They launched a BIG attack, with all their modern weapons. I made an alliance with Egypt, but they didn't much help me. The Chinese landed transport after transport with Infantries, Tanks and Mech Infs. They took in a couple of turns about 15 cities and razed some more. And the worst is, they destroyed my FP, almost ruining my economy.

By giving them 1 more city I made peace and tried to repair the damages. I still was making over 600 culture per turn, but I could not go far enough ahead of the 2nd by culture (India). I was not very close to have twice as much culture as they, and since I had lost about 1/3 of my cities, my culture speed was pretty much slowing down. I made some tries so save the situation, although with a ruined country and without a FP there was not much I could do. I barely could keep all culture improvements up, no chance to build more or even rushbuy some. About 5 turns later I got the final K.O. The Chinese extorted spices, I gave in, and they attacked the same turn! I had nothing more to give for an alliance, so I had to take it alone. And not enough, that the Chinese came with Battleships, Carriers with Bombers, Tanks and Mech Infs against the rest of my workers and 2 scouts, they allied up with the Indians, who came with the same amount of troops. After I lost about 15 or 20 more cities, I could make peace with China for a city again. China immediately attacked Egypt. They were obviously out for blood and didn't care much about who was the victim. But India still refused to talk with me and continued to burn my defenseless cities. I will have 100000 culture soon, but now my culture compared with the Indians is actually decreasing and I have no chance to get double of their culture anymore. Thus, I lost the game.

A few observations:

- The Indians built the UN in 1812, but till 1922 did not make a single election.

- When the FP is destroyed, you can build a new one (I didn't know that).

- It seems to me, that the AI gets a regular defender in cities they got for peace. The human player gets none. Can somebody confirm this? It would be a cheat (gah, or an AI advantage). There was no chance to move a defender in, as the city they got for peace was in the mid of my empire, not at the border.

- The Chinese were by far the biggest dog. The Indians and Egyptians were second. The Germans got destroyed by the Chinese, the French by the Indians. The Iroquois got severely reduced by the Egyptians. I played the "killer AI" version.

And here's my latest save:

[Harovan]

And here's a snapshot of my Borg empire, when it was still halfway intact. Lovely, ain't it?

[Killerdaffy]

323 + 171 = 594 !!!

Check this out: 323 GPT and that's on top of the 171 GPT deal from some turns earlier. He can't really be generating that kind of wealth but presumably sold some techs. Germany, with only a size two city left gave me > 200 GPT for a while (after they sold Nationalism to everybody). No wars since the early Mao-Bismarck tussle gave everybody time to build up infrastructure. This is the *normal* version btw. I was gunning for Cultural one city > 20000 but will miss it by about 20 turns.

[Theseus]

Oh, man, SR, I feel for you... on holiday, give in to the temptation, and you get whacked! Don;t know if you remember, but in MT 1 or 2, Arrian and I got KILLED, and believe me, I share your pain.

KD: I have NEVER gotten that kind of trade... well done!!! I'm gonna post my AAR right after this, but I ain't got 12K+ and 600+ gpt coming in!

BTW, I am fascinated by the different outcomes in the Germany vs China gunfight.

[Theseus]

This game has totally kept me on my toes.

I somehow didn't get off to as strong a start as others have posted... I think it was 'cause of my "great idea" in Size Matters. I tried to Borg my way to cultural dominance, with all cities place 2 or 3 tiles apart. I figured that dozens of verrrry old Temples would be super-powerful... blech. One flip, big whup, some great idea. Sir Ralph executed the concept a million times better than I (although look what THAT got him).

Instead, I ended up with some mediocre cities and territory, and 5 AI cities below the chokepoint... and, I was too slow to get the silks.

So, I sorta screwed it up early, which sharpened me into a building / trading GENIUS! I felt like an old-time 'comprador,' if you know what that is (sort of international traders in SE Asia).

Besides straight-out resource trading (including selling a lot of 0s), I sharpened my skills at identifying the first AI to research a tech, buying it at whatever cost, and then beating that AI to profitable sales to all the others... research arbitrage. One of the tricks: whatever is suggested as your next tech to research, DON'T! That's what the advanced AI civs will go for too... you need to get off the beaten path. Even toward the end (where I am now), the suggestion was to research Fission... as much as that's my goal, I'm researching Computers instead (at a 279 gpt deficit!).

I was terminally behind in tech overall, but scrambled through. I missed the Colossus, which scared the hell out me and totally narrowed my entire mid-game plan to getting Copernicus... which I did, wasting 200+ shields of a Palace pre-build, but it was worth it, great GA as a monarchy.

Actually, that was another big mistake... I should have waited the 10 or so turns for Republic. Later in the game, around Combustion, I changed over from Monarchy to Democracy, and the anarchy was incredibly painful.

I've been able to build the Hanging Gardens, Copernicus, Newton (not in the same city), Smith, TOE, and all SWs. Not to mention my cities... this has been builder delight.

Did anybody else build the Iron Works in Washington? I don;t remember, but I think I moved one tile at the start.

The Iroquois build a city right below the chokepoint... I've been trying to culture bomb it, and have not succeeded. Unfortunately, until I leaped ahead with the TOE, I didn;t have the cashola to really build up the culture of the surrounding cities... now, St. Regis is at 6 pop, and I don't think it's 'flippable.' Anybody got some expert opinions on how and when to do this successfully?

Like Aeson, I've build a human shield with Scouts and Explorers... not quite his level of insanity, but a solid ring around my coasts and any intruding AI cities, and a stack of 5 each on the two tiles above Denver, which is my chokepoint city.

In terms of the AI civs and candidate 'killers,' I gotta say I am scared out of my mind... I actually have a knot in my stomache. Like most reports thus far, the Iroquois are a non-issue... but THE REST are f-cked up strong!

Germany took out China, turned Mao into an OCC on the Falkland Island below India. Very different, I think, from most of the other confrontations.

Now everybody's allied against Germany, except me (no MPPs or alliances, thank you very much!)... I actually feel like that idiot foreign advisor: "OH NO!!"

I DO NOT want wars going on, as the excess troops will at some point look at my juicy cities! ARRRGGHH!

I saw Nanking flip back from Germany to China, btw... made no sense (don;t tell Coracle).

It's a bad bad bad world... see the alliances pic below (in 1605AD, I'm researching Computers).

I am doing my damnedest to keep up good relations. For both resources and techs, I'm selling for less than asked... also, I'm gifting techs like crazy, if AI civs can't afford them. I even got Germany up to gracious. On checking F3, I realized that at one point I had bought 1 French worker long ago... hell, I'm not taking ANY chances, I disbanded the damn thing.

Killer review:

* Egypt: Dear god in heaven, please don;t let Cleo come down on me. She's ahead in tech (FISSION!), and has 7700+ gold!!

* France: GW powerhouse, especially in the Middle Ages, but seems to have lost steam.

* India: Big, but not a player (sorta RL, no insult intended).

* Germany: Well, the offense versus defense thing got decided in my game at least. Bizzymarcky is a bad man.

* Iroquois: Except for their incursionary cities, I wouldn't even think about'em.

I still think starting location is the dominant factor in killer AI civ development. Next up is non-territory-quality 'environment' - meaning, the human player's triggering of the aggression flag. Finally, there's build preferences, which I think are working, although we still need some tweaks. This was a placebo test... next time, let's try the new build preferences with the gloves off.

All in all I'm enjoying the game, although this is a one-time thing... gotta have WAR!!! It's definitely helped my non-military skills; I've never researched / traded this well, and I got taught some good lessons re early location choices.

[Interesting sidenote: Bremen was the German city at the SE peninsula of its territory, near India... there was a Horse resource on the island in between... what happens? If roaded, and at peace with India, does Germany get the Horses?]

[Theseus]

Here's the world map:

[Theseus]

Here's the human shield: