AU mod: The Statue of Zeus

[ducki]

Good stuff, Nor Me.
Just one thing I want to try to clarify.

I still don't see the logic is fixing a wonder that you always build when you can by allowing you to always be able to build it.

This is a good description of the change from the player's point of view, but it leaves out the fact that a)the AI is more agressive on the Math-Construction-Currency line than it used to be and b)the change also allows the AI to build it always.

It turns it into a race to Math instead of getting Ivory(settling, conquering, trading, however).
I do like your points, though. I just thought that one quote deserved the AI's side of the story as well.

Very persuasive.

[MrWhereItsAt]

FWIW, I have PMed Zargon and asked him to come on in and vote.

[ZargonX]

Sorry, been caught up in some demogame stuff

My vote: No

[alexman]

OK, the Statue of Zeus retains its Ivory requirement then, with a vote of 5 against 2.

Next proposal: Reduce attack factor of Ancient Cavalry to 2?

The reasoning is that if the Wonder is going to be available only to the player with Ivory, building it should not be a no-brainer.

You have to wait 35 turns to get 7 non-upgradable Ancient Cavalry. If your focus is going to be war in Ancient Age, or if the tech rate is slow in the Ancient Age, it's better to build the SoZ whenever you can. Ancient Cavalry are still much better than Horsemen. But if want a more flexible military, upgradable to Knights for fighting in the Middle Ages, spend those 200 shields to build 7 horsemen instead.

[Dominae]

I think the HP bonus should be removed instead. That would leave only the War Elephant with this ability, making it a lot more special when it does come in to play ("Wow, that War Elephant has 6HPs...it's HUGE!").


Dominae

[alexman]

I'm not sure the HP bonus removal is enough to devalue the SoZ. With a 3-2-2 unit, I would still build the Wonder whenever I can.

Against a fortified veteran spearman, ignoring retreat:
Veteran Horseman wins 34% of the time.
2-2-2 +1HP vet Ancient Cavalry wins 46% of the time
3-2-2 vet Ancient Cavalry wins 55.7% of the time
3-2-2 +1HP vet Ancient Cavalry wins 69% of the time

[Dominae]

What about with a simultaneous increase in the Statue of Zeus' cost?

The "I would build it whenever I can" statement is interesting: I think that by attaching a resource requirement to a Wonder, the idea is that if you have that resource, you build the Wonder as a knee-jerk reaction (like the Iron Works). I'm not sure we should introduce a stratetic decision to build the Statue of Zeus or not, just make it less powerful for that civ that does get to build it.


Dominae

[Stuie]

I'd like to leave it 3.2.2 just for the sake of it being unique. So... I think the reduced HPs and increased wonder cost sound like a good idea.

Or reduce the HPs and decrease the frequency at which the unit gets created.

[alexman]

Either way is fine by me really, but how is 3.2.2 more unique than 2.2.2?

I thought the +1HP was actually a more unique feature of AC than its attack of 3.

[Stuie]

There are no other 3.2.2 units in the game, while there is a 2.2.2 unit.

[alexman]

*cough* Gallic Swordsman, Conquistador *cough*

[Dominae]

Double post/joke.

[Dominae]

You should get something for that cough, alexman, it sounds nasty.

[Stuie]

Originally posted by alexman
*cough* Gallic Swordsman, Conquistador *cough*

Yeah, except for those.

[Arrian]

There are many options for weakening the wonder, and I think they've all been mentioned:

1) Increase cost of the wonder
2) Lower the unit's stats
3) Decrease the frequency of unit production
4) Remove the hp bonus

All of them weaken the wonder. The question becomes how much weaker do you guys want it to be?

How about increased shield cost (300 shields) and decreased frequency (7 or 8 turns, instead of 5)? Thus you retain the coolness factor of the Ancient Cavalry - this cool, badass unit only produced by a wonder, but you gotta invest more to get it and you will get less of them (both because the wonder will take longer to build and because they will be produced at a slower rate).

-Arrian, AU lurker