AU mod: Cavalry

[sabrewolf]

each time losing the elite status, but otherwise neat

[nbarclay]

I think we have a problem with Alexman's suggestion of using the Cossack graphics for Heavy Cavalry. With the in-game graphic tied to the Civilopedia entry, unless I missed something, we can't use the Cossack graphic without also ending up wth the Cossack Civilopedia entry - complete with its claim that the Cossack can attack multiple times per turn, which Heavy Cavalry can't do. So I think we're stuck using the same graphics for light and heavy cavalry (if the proposal passes), even though that's not an ideal situation.

[Theseus]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
each time losing the elite status, but otherwise neat

It's no biggie, really just the same issue traditionally from Knights to Cavs (less so actually): Upgrade your vets, and hold the elites for GL generation or for wearing down tough defenders, and upgrading when damaged.

The graphics issue is really... a non-issue. I have had NO problem keeping in mind the distinction between Light and Heavy Cavs.

I like the change, very much.

[alexman]

Originally posted by nbarclay
we can't use the Cossack graphic without also ending up wth the Cossack Civilopedia entry - complete with its claim that the Cossack can attack multiple times per turn, which Heavy Cavalry can't do.

There's a precedent for that. Without downloading the AU mod civilopedia files, there are all sorts of inaccuracies in the civilopedia.

The problem is easily fixed by changing the optional civilopedia.txt file download, for those who want to rely on the in-game help.

[nbarclay]

Even with an optional file, the situation would still be kludgy because the Cossack and Heavy Cavalry would have to share an entry in our revised file. We'd have to write a single entry that describes both. I don't think that issue for players who do download the extra file, plus a far more serious Civilopedia problem for players who don't, is worth it just for the different graphics.

I've played part of a game using my modified scenario myself, in my case, a hotseat game where I control two civs. I haven't made much use of light cavalry so far - one of my civs only built a few before transitioning to heavies while the other has remained peaceful thus far - but what little experience I can draw from my game agrees with Theseus that the use of the same graphic for both isn't that big a deal. And since the units have the same movement rate, only slightly different attack values, and the same other capabilities, the repercussions even if the use of the same graphic would cause an occasioinal mx-up aren't nearly as great as they would be if the units' capabilities were more different.

[Theseus]

Yeah, I am now in a very large attack of mixed Cavs, and, let's remember, you're almost always have them in a stack anyway, and thus have to pick from the list, not just from a graphic. So really, it's no biggie.

[nbarclay]

Since no one's come up with a way to use separate graphics without producing, um, "interesting" side effects, let's go ahead and vote on the following package (a single vote for the entire package). If someone can come up with a better solution to the graphics issue, we can vote on it later.

1) Change the name of the current 5.3.3 Cavalry unit to Light Cavalry and add a 6.3.3, cost 90 Heavy Cavalry unit available with Nationalism. Both would use the same, standard cavalry graphic.

2) Restore the Cossack to standard rules. Since it starts with an attack value of 6, no upgrade is needed.

3) Leave the Sipahi the way it currently is in the AU Mod, with an attack value of 7 and cost of 100. There will be no upgrade for it, but even without an upgrade, it remains superior to Heavy Cavalry.

[alexman]

Yes

[Theseus]

Yes (although this nerfs Cossacks a wee bit)

[pvzh]

Sorry, to intrude, but where are Cossacks now? At Military Tradition or Nationalism with Heavy Cavalry?

[alexman]

First of all, nobody intrudes in AU mod discussions. All comments are welcome.

To answer your question, Cossacks in nbarclay's proposal remain at Military Tradition, so in fact they are somewhat strengthened, not nerfed.

[nbarclay]

Cossacks and Sipahi are both at Military Tradition under my proposal. Edit: Crosspost.

In regard to how this proposal affects Cossacks, in terms of unit strength, they are strengthened relative to both the stock rules and the current AU Mod rules. Under the stock rules, Cossacks' only advantage over cavalry is their blitz attribute. The current AU Mod rules keep that situation the same, with both Cossacks and cavalry being 5.3.3 instead of 6.3.3. In contrast, under the proposal we're currently considering, Cossacks get the additional advantage of having a higher attack value than Light Cavalry, providing an extra advantage until Nationalism.

The down side from a Russian perspective is that the option of skipping Military Tradition and relying on Nationalism for the ability to build a cavalry unit is not available. But in my view, the benefit of getting a 6.3.3 unit sooner, possibly a lot sooner, more than outweighs that consideration.

[Theseus]

Sorry, you are correct.

Then I vote an unreserved yes!!

[nbarclay]

My vote, of course, is yes.

[lockstep]

Yes.

Too bad we can't use the Hussar's graphics without additional text files.