AU mod: Cavalry

[nbarclay]

I can go along with trying a straight change to 5/3/3 in the initial C3C version of the mod and seeing how we like it. For better and for worse, it's probably going to pretty much destroy the strategy I used to put away the "Son of SVC" game - a cavalry charge straight into the teeth of the leading AI's riflemen (but before Bismarck had time to finish upgrading). That could be a real problem trying to come back from a tech deficit. But in most of my games, I stop engaging in offensive warfare when the enemy gets Nationalism.

The other interesting twist is that eventually, AIs do tend to upgrade to mostly musketmen. In the Chasqui game Dominae posted, I researched through Navigation in order to open up transoceanic trade routes before going on to Military Tradition (with a detour through Steam Power, no less, while trying to build up my forces for upgrade). I had such a ridiculous tech lead that I still had plenty of time to wipe out the Mongols and kick the Dutch and Chinese off the continent, but but the Mongols and Chinese seemed to have practically all musketmen defending their cities. (The Dutch, of course, had their own special brand of menace for my cavalry to deal with.) In essence, the change is going to make delaying a cavalry blitz instead of beelining to Military tradition a bit less of an option for civs intent on cavalry conquest.

Nathan

[sabrewolf]

i could live quite well with 5,3,3.

is the idea of reducing movement to 2 off the table?

[nbarclay]

Reduce the movement rate and I probably won't play with the AU Mod. Fighting with 3-move units is too much fun.

I just thought of a problem with having only a 5.3.3 version of cavalry. With the French musketeer now having a defense value of 5, cavalry will have as much trouble against those guys as they do against riflemen under normal rules. That will be annoying, to put it mildly when the French, happen to be in the way.

[lockstep]

Not so annoying as playing against Greece in the ancient age.

[Fosse]

I could handle 5.3.3.

[Nor Me]

Just reducing the attack of cavalry to 5 is a much larger change than the 2 unit option.

Unless we find that the AI really doesn't handle the zero-cost upgrade as well as it ought, I'd definately be in favour of the extra units.

[Myrddin]

Any changes to cavalry should take into account the C3C changes to Armies, given that you are also likely to be building the Military Academy, as they make Armies significantly stronger with bonuses to stats, extra movement and free pillaging

Therefore if cavalry are too strong, cavalry armies will be totally over top

Taking the cavalry movement down to 2 would seem OK ( as it can go back up when you put an Army together), leaving the 3 movement for UU's only

[Strollen]

Originally posted by nbarclay
Reduce the movement rate and I probably won't play with the AU Mod. Fighting with 3-move units is too much fun.

I just thought of a problem with having only a 5.3.3 version of cavalry. With the French musketeer now having a defense value of 5, cavalry will have as much trouble against those guys as they do against riflemen under normal rules. That will be annoying, to put it mildly when the French, happen to be in the way.

I agree that 3 move units are a lot of fun. The AI uses them pretty well which keeps me honest with defenders especially when other countries are sending troops through my terrority.

As for the point about the French it should be tough to make progress against the French during what is probably their Golden Age!!!! That is a feature not a bug.

[Theseus]

Two things re theis most excellent thread:

* The AU Mod should NEVER require the installation of anything! Just download a 4000BC save and let'er rip. I feel very very strongly about this.

* I think we should start slow and simple... reduce Cavs to 5.3.3 and see how it goes.

[ZargonX]

5 attack also happens to be the value of Crusaders, which, when I've gotten them, tend to be quite successful against pikes, a mildly useful against Musketmen. So, basically, 5.3.3 cavs may work out, but it will need to be tested, as Theseus says.

[lockstep]

Originally posted by Theseus
I think we should start slow and simple... reduce Cavs to 5.3.3 and see how it goes.

Just to be clear: Are you also for taking 1 attack point away from Cossack and Siphai, Theseus?

[Theseus]

Yes.

[Stuie]

Good idea Theseus. Better to start simple and build on/remove the idea as necessary than to over-complicate things from the get go.

[MrWhereItsAt]

So broad agreement is drop Cav to 5.3.3, and not yet bother with any "Trained Cavalry", or any such things?

[ducki]

I like that idea, THeseus.
Especially in light of some of the other threads, i.e. de-emphasizing the Nationalism->Communism line for the AI.
Little tiny pieces often cause surprising behavior to emerge.