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Early Landing Comparison Game #4

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  • #46

    I had some more time to look over your save and have become convinced that more cities on large maps is a better way to go, but that this expansion should probably stop when there is enough city science to sustain an advance per turn. I noticed your original plan of having bigger cities was curtailed when you realized that this science level had been achieved. It was the period between Railroad and Automobile where your extra cities did you the most good and where your approach outperformed my own.

    I think both SSC sites were very good, since your problem with blocked supplies was caused by setting up trade routes with Ur using commodities that remained on the supply list. My first three (and only), SSC trades with Ur were made with early commodities, two of which became obsolete, allowing wonder bread to work later. About the only way you could unblock was by replacing Ur's routes, but doing that would have killed the RR bonuses, which need to be retained. In my SSC, the trade value for these routes got up to 35 arrows, the best I've seen so far in an EL game.

    Looks like the barbs in your game were a bit anti- Chinese!


    • #47
      Originally posted by solo
      that this expansion should probably stop when there is enough city science to sustain an advance per turn. I noticed your original plan of having bigger cities was curtailed when you realized that this science level had been achieved. It was the period between Railroad and Automobile where your extra cities did you the most good and where your approach outperformed my own
      Solo, this is also my conclusion. The best would be to arrive at one tech a turn with the beginning of Rennaissance. But allready coming close to that will have the same effect if just one trade delivery every turn can be completed. This also later allows more 2 techs a turn advances. To achieve this on a large map
      - a fully developed SSC and
      - a number of 16+ cities
      is needed. To build all this you need more time and cash and IMO this justifies to set back science in favour of cash after reaching trade. Until Rennaissance tech advances are needed, when improvements have to be build, not neccessarily before. Techs can mostly be done with deliveries and tech trade. It doesn´t matter if Rennaissance comes a few turns later if you enter it better developed. That´s what I called early development strategy. I did the same on the medium map, just without additional cities. I am not sure about the medium map but on a large map I consider this approach justified.

      Having a broader approach for the first time it was difficult to forsee how many cities should be build and how big they could be grown. Reaching size 12 was probably to ambitious. Size 8 would may be enough. I also was not content with my city growth. Size 5 was not enough, a city size 9 just stupid. But to stop growth at that point was the right decision. There are certainly improvements possible during this growth period.

      Thank´s for the hint about my trade routes. This was exactly what I wanted to check.



      • #48
        ELCG 4 Large Map, Egyptians, 995 AD Landing

        3950 Thebes
        3900 Memphis
        3600 Alphabet
        3150 Code of laws, Babylonians peace
        2600 Heliopolis
        2550 Bronce Working
        2150 Alexandria
        2100 Babylonians Alliance 50g
        2050 Pi Ramesses
        2000 CB
        1950 Chinese destroyed by Barbarians
        1650 Monarchy
        1400 50g from Babylonians
        1350 Giza
        1300 trade for currency 100g
        1250 Byblos
        1200 Trade

        1050 Al Armarna, 50g from Babylonians
        1000 Hieraconpolis
        975 Babylonians gift pottery
        850 MPE, Wikings trade for Map Making, Mystizism, peace maps, Celts trade for Writing, Literacy, peace maps, Americans, peace, maps 50g tribute, Carthaginiens, peace maps, Indians give tech, peace maps, Babylonians maps

        675 Philosophy, Republic, Abydos
        650 Babylomians give rep 50g
        600 Americans 25g, copper to Kaupang (d) 88g, hides heliopolis Kaupang (d) 96g, asyut, avaris
        500 HG
        450 Lisht, 16th city, start consolidation
        425 Medicine
        375 silver Heliopolis Trondheim (d) 200g, Buto
        325 Republic, dye to Kaupang (d) 136g
        300 Banking, beads Elephantine Kaupang 80g
        225 dye Hieraconpolis Ur (d) 68g, trade for masonry
        200 dye Giza Uppsala (d) 144g
        175 Construction, wine Thebes Trondheim (d) 240g, SSC marketplace
        150 Colossus
        125 beads to Ur 64g, silk Byblos Kaupang (d) 264g
        100 Mathematics, mathematics, astronomy, the wheel, iron working, polytheism are all there but not traded for Sun Tzu building, Pithom Celt, copper Al Armarna Kaupang (d) 88g
        75 Busiris Celt, SSC Library
        50 copper Asyut Ur (d) 216g
        25 hides Thebes Uppsala (d) 168g
        1 SSC aqueduct, wine Elephantine SSC (d) 104g SSC unblocked, trade for Iron Working
        20 ST, Astronomy, dye Pi Trondheim (d) 176g,
        80 SSC size 8, Wikings finish Sun Tzu finally, copper to Kaupang (d) 280g, trade for The Wheel, Poly
        100 University, wine abydos SSC (d) 90g SSC unblocked, hides Hieraconpolis Kaupang (d) 200g
        120 gems edfu byblos (d) 168g
        140 hides Thebes Kaupang (d) 216g
        160 Engineering, SSC size 12, University, copper to Kaupang (d) 392g, silk edfu SSC (d) 270g
        180 Copernicus, Sanitation
        200 Kahun
        220 Theory of Gravity, SSC Sewerage, Gold Giza SSC 68g
        240 silk Busiris SSC (d) 558g, dye Bouto Niniveh (d) 232g
        260 Monotheism, SSC Harbour, copper to Kaupang (d) 440, gems Pithom SSC 196g, Athribis
        280 Economics, silk Avaris Nineveh (d) 300g,
        300 Micheangelos, hides Byblos Kaupang (d) 280g, dye to Kaupang 240g, dye heliopolis SSC 64g unblocked,
        320 Religion, silver Asyut Ashur (d) 250g, dye Lisht Hladir (d) 140g
        340 Chemistry, hides Hieraconpolis Kaupang (d) 264g
        360 INC, Mendes Celt

        380 Invention, size 21, dye to Ur 75g, beads buto SSC 64g, gems Avaris SSC (d) 174g, SSC wonder bread

        420 Democracy, copper Giza Kaupang (d) 116g, dye Alexandria Kaupang (d) 92g, coal Alexandria Buto (d) 82g, dye Thebes SSC 34g SSC unblocked, stop celebrating, SSC size 23, city sizes 11(1), 9(1), 8(5), 7(3), 6(1), 5(5),others (4), 21 cities, science 889 (80%)

        440 Gun Powder,
        460 Democracy, gold El Armarna Kaupang 54g
        480 Navigation, hides Abydos Uppsala (d) 88g
        500 JSB, Physics, salt to Ur 86g, the third trade route to Ur, 18 each now

        520 Bridge Building, gems Abydos Hladir (d) 168g
        540 Steam Engine, Barb attack, dye Elephantine Kaupang (d) 172g SSC wonder bread
        560 Railroad, coal Edfu SSC 48g, coal Asyut SSC 50g,
        580 Industrialization, Darwin´s, Metallurgy, Corporation, wool to Kaupang 96g, Tanis Celt, El-Ash Celt

        600 coal byblos SSC 33g unblocked
        620 Explosives, dye El Armarna Kaupang (d) 116g, gold Edfu SSC 48g , dye Avaris SSC 47g
        640 Magnetism, oil to Ur 86g, hides Abydos Hladir (d) 116g, science 1403 (100%)
        660 Refinery, gems Athribis SSC (d) 428g, ship line to Celt Continent established

        680 Electricity, coal Busiris SSC (d) 352g
        700 Combustion, silk Mendes SSC 132g
        720 Steel, gems Mendes SSC (d) 404g,
        740 Automobile, Hides Heliopolis Cardiff (d) 424g

        760 Electronics, SSC Thebes superhighways, Ur railway complete, science 1888, trade for Chivalry, wool Thebes Cardiff (d) 612g, coal Pi Cardiff (d) 460g, silk Thanis SSC (d) 596g, Buhen Celt, Bubastis Celt,

        780 Mass Production, conscription, size 24, Heliopolis Byblos, Busiris Superhighways, cloth to Busiris (d) 770g, dye Athritis Ur (d) 168g, oil Hieraconpolis Heliopolis (d) 118g

        800 Leadership, SSC wonder bread doesn´t work, Thanis superhighways, coal Thanis SSC (d) 670g

        820 Atomic Theory, Tactics, Pithom, Edfu superhighways, hides Heliopolis Kells (d) 768g, wine Pithom Edfu (d) 284g, hides Heliopolis Kells 384g, gold Busiris Thebes (d) 480g

        840 Nuclear Fission, Bubastis, Buhen, El-Ash, Asyut superhighways, Machine Tools, beads Thebes Bubastis 304g, silk Bubastis SSC (d) 1056g, coal Buhen SSC (d) 764g

        860 Nuclear Power, Miniturization, gold Asyut Carmarthen (d) 702g, oil Byblos Thanis (d) 504g, beads Heliopolis Thanis (d) 280g, silk El-Ash SSC (d) 948g

        880 Computers, SETI Program, Flight, Oryx, Sebbenitus, Pi, Avaris superhighways, silver Thanis Pi (d) 194g, gold Avaris Thebes (d) 179g, oil Pithom Heliopolis (d) 396g, dye Edfu Caerphilly (d) 172g, gems Lisht SSC (d) 98g, dye Pithom Ur (d) 176g

        900, Radio Advanced Flight, This Elephantine superhighways, SSC wonderbread still doesn´t work, oil Elephantine Cardiff 194g, oil Avaris Cardiff 204g, gold Pi Cardiff 198g, copper This Byblos (d) 205g, gems Thebes This (d) 251, oil El Ash SSC (d) 573g

        920, Laser Rocketry, oil Heliopolis Busiris (d) 452g, copper Bubastis Byblos (d) 242g, oil Buto SSCn (d) 349g, wine Pithom Edfu (d) 190g, beads Byblos Pithom (d)116g, copper Buhen Byblos (d) 230g

        940 Space Flight, Apollo Program, Plastics, wine asyut bubastis (d) 283g, oil Pi Cardiff 198g,

        960 Superconductor, silver Asyut Busiris (d) 330g, oil Oryx SSC (d) 523g, oil Edfu SSC (d) 308g, gems Thebes This (d) 272g, silk Busiris Thebes (d) 339g, gold Busiris Thebes (d) 339g

        980 Fusion Power, Launch 15 – 3 – 3 – 1 – 1 – 1

        995 AC Landing


        • #49
          In #4, Zenon continued to set the pace in large map games setting a new record of 995 AD, the first landing below 1000 AD. Congrats to Zenon on a great game.

          Due to fewer players posting results this time, they have been combined on one chart, with medium map results on the left and large map results on the right.
          Attached Files