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**SCG** · February 16, 2003, 20:09

I've always liked the pyramids. Of course I've always looked at discontentment as an inconvinence rather than a problem. Until i started playing the OCC games, i used to always go directly to republic., never even considering Monarchy. I play a little more in Monarchy now, but still prefer the representative governments for happiness management.

**Scouse Gits** · February 16, 2003, 21:27

At Deity build the HG every time and enjoy celebration in you capital/SSC every time. As you say the Pyramids can be captured later.

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SG(2)

**rjmatsleepers** · February 17, 2003, 03:38

Re: Early pyramid construction

Originally posted by Insite
I wonder what peoples thoughs are on the Pyramids in an early to mid game in the higher difficulty settings (king and above).

Thoughts? Comments?

I used to build the Pyramids all the time (at Deity), but I no longer go anywhere near them. I found that growth came to fast and the resulting unhapiness was tedious to manage - particularly with an early switch to Republic. In anycase, a good run of WLTPDs works better than the Pyramids if you really want to grow a city.

RJM at Sleepers

**Scouse Gits** · February 17, 2003, 04:29

I too much prefer the Gardens to the Colossus - why improve one city when you can help the entire Empire?

After that I generally have other fish to fry and don't think much about other early WoWs except maybe the Lighthouse on a watery world.

The Pyramids are nice (and an excellent capture), but don't figure prominantly in my game.

SG[1]

**DrSpike** · February 17, 2003, 05:37

Pyramids are ok, even at Deity if you play it right. But SG is right, for high levels HG wins hands down........colossus or pyramids second.

At King pyramids is a fine early choice.

**Six Thousand Year Old Man** · February 17, 2003, 11:41

HG first, then Colossus, then Marco Polo.

Pyramids I might take later, but probably not. There are always more useful wonders to build, and the unhappiness can be a nuisance. When you're ready to grow, using WLTCD will suffice.

On lower levels I used to build them all the time - there's no unhappiness hassle.

**Bloody Monk** · February 17, 2003, 15:37

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
At Deity build the HG every time and enjoy celebration in you capital/SSC every time. As you say the Pyramids can be captured later.

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SG(2)

Not necessarily "every" time.

In an Early Landing Attempt, HG will not be around very long. Solo has shown how Shakespeare's Theatre in the SSC is a good choice. But that is a very sparse, lean gameplan that focuses on quickly growing and "fitting out" the Super Science City to speed up tech advances.

So, the answer really depends on the type of game one wants to play. And the thing that makes Civ II such a superior game is the multiplicity of choices and paths one can choose.

Monk (being, hopefully, not too preachy)

**DrSpike** · February 17, 2003, 15:55

Originally posted by Bloody Monk

Monk (being, hopefully, not too preachy)

For god's sake, you clearly have built up some competence now so stop being so humble.

[eyes mode] Say things like stfu you deity playing noob SG, you don't know jack about the game. [/eyes mode]

**Bloody Monk** · February 17, 2003, 16:00

Why thank you, Chucky; but it really is a monk thing

Monk

**DrSpike** · February 17, 2003, 16:00

Originally posted by Bloody Monk

Not necessarily "every" time.

In an Early Landing Attempt, HG will not be around very long. Solo has shown how Shakespeare's Theatre in the SSC is a good choice. But that is a very sparse, lean gameplan that focuses on quickly growing and "fitting out" the Super Science City to speed up tech advances.

To address your point I think maybe. When I used to play early landing games we did random starts, and Solo's patented SSC + helpers was sometimes beaten in these starts by a SSC + sleaze. When sleazing HG always is worth its weight in gold (literally) early on.

In Solo's games I would concede you have a good point, though HG is still better than a kick in the teeth.

**Bloody Monk** · February 17, 2003, 16:17

Right-o. Early means always and constantly asking oneself what a particular action has as an opportunity cost in time. If you can make it work--finish early--then, obviously, sleeze away, or any other idea.

And yes, O Wise and Scary One, much better than a kick in the teeth, or a sharp stick in the eye, or a hammer to one's thumb...but then, the same can be said of the Tower.

Monk

**DrSpike** · February 17, 2003, 16:30

That's pretty tight; it might depend on who was doing the kicking.

**Insite** · February 17, 2003, 18:46

Ok but back to the point of the thread, whay wouldnt you want the extra population? If you have a hassle with extra population growth causing unhappiness, why not micro manage idivigdual cities to minimise the production of food, cutting down on the generation of new citizens.

If you quickly get a city to optimal size, workers can be shuffled around to other terrain squares or resources that produce more shields or arrows and less food.

Also, I have found that settler production, and hence expansion happens at a far faster rate if you do have the P. Especially if combined with the micromanagement strategy above. Mind you I can understand that this won't suit everyone as it does require a lot of fiddling at the end of each turn.

**Six Thousand Year Old Man** · February 17, 2003, 19:25

Originally posted by Insite
Ok but back to the point of the thread, whay wouldnt you want the extra population? If you have a hassle with extra population growth causing unhappiness, why not micro manage idivigdual cities to minimise the production of food, cutting down on the generation of new citizens.

If you want to minimize food production, why build the Pyramids at all?

If you quickly get a city to optimal size, workers can be shuffled around to other terrain squares or resources that produce more shields or arrows and less food.

Well, optimal size in the very early game that I play is size 2 - I always go maximum food at size 1, then maximum shields at size 2 (gospel according to DaveV

). And Pyramids doesn't get me to size 2 any faster. Size 3, sure, but that's not optimal for me.

Also, I have found that settler production, and hence expansion happens at a far faster rate if you do have the P. Especially if combined with the micromanagement strategy above. Mind you I can understand that this won't suit everyone as it does require a lot of fiddling at the end of each turn.

The fiddling is a bit of a nuisance - city goes to size 3 faster, needs an elvis - if we could create eins at size 3, I'd like the Pyramids. And if I wanted to spend time building martial law units, perhaps I'd like Pyramids better. There are just so many other choices, most of which are better to me.

By the time I really want growth, I can celebrate, and get growth fast and regardless of owning Pyramids.

There are advantages. Cities founded late in the game hit size 3 faster, and can thus celebrate and grow faster. Starvation becomes a non-issue when the city maxes out. Growing cities with food Freights is simpler. Xinning size 5 cities lasts longer.

Despite all those... I still would rank Pyramids 4th or so among the ancient wonders. I don't usually get to build more than 2 or 3