Early Landing Comparison Game #1

[Bloody Monk]

Solo,

It is my hope that you are planning to discuss the various aspects of Trade in your "White Paper" on Early Landing. The previous posts dealing with Wonder Bread, unblocking of slots are very helpful, especially the examples. The three recent threads you and Samson collaborated to create had so much vital intelligence, but they are also somewhat hard to follow. And the math parts stump me completely.


What is a Remainder??, for instance. Using the wildcard formula for example, I don't get anything like the 0-16 result the table suggests. Perhaps an example using the SSC coord's of this game (18,12) would help. That is, if you have the time.

The reason I think this info belongs in an Early Landing discussion is placement of colonies, since there are so few of them. If one could determine which tiles would give the best supply back to the SSC, it could make a huge difference in the final outcome.

Hope you don't mind my 2cents being floated about.

Monk

[solo]

Monk,

I agree that the calculations can be a bit daunting, especially if you want to figure out all supplies and demands, since each individual commodity has to be calculated. When I was working with Samson on this, by checking his formulas, I would have the answers right in front of me, and was just trying to verify his formulas, but often came up with something different due to slight errors here or there. It's very tricky.

However, wildcards are quite straightforward and easy to do, as long as you know the meaning of the remainder function.

First of all, a remainder is what is left if a number does not divide evenly into another. For example, 4/2= 2 with no remainder, since 2x2 = 4. You could also call this a zero remainder. 5/2 = 2 also, in integer math, but this does not come out even, since 2 x 2 = 4. The remainder is found by subtracting 4 from 5, so in this case the remainder is 1. 8/3 = 2, and this time the remainder is 2, which can be found be multiplying 2x3 and getting 6, which when subtracted from 8 equals 2.

Now when you divide with a calulator , you'll get real number as a result. For example, 8/3 = 2.6666666
The .66666 is the remainder expressed as a fraction. We can convert it to an integer by multiplying it by 3.
3 x .66666 = 1.99999, which is closest to 2, so 2 ends up as the remainder. Since you'll probably want to use a calulator, it's easiest to do it like this:

Step 1 8/3 = 2.66666
Step 2 2.66666 - 2 = .666666 (all we want is the remainder)
Step 3 .66666 x 3 = 1.99999, which we round up to 2

All three steps can be done without having to punch in all the digits of the remainder, if you do it like this.

Now for the SSC in our game at coordinates (18,12):

Let's do the first wildcards, before 32 techs are known.

Supply = (18x13 + 12x7)/14
= (234 + 84)/14
= 318/14 = 22.71
remainder of 22.71 = 22.71 - 22 = .71 x 14 = 10 silver

Demand = (18x3 + 12x5)/14
= (54 + 60)/14
= 114/14 = 8.14
remainder of 8.14 = 8.14 - 8 = .14 x 14 = 2 beads

Now let's do it after 32 techs are known. Notice that 318 and 114 are used again, and only have to be figured out once:

Supply = 318/9 = 35.33
remainder of 35.33 = 35.33 - 35 = .33 x 9 = 3
add 5 to 3 to get the commodity # which is 8 wine

Demand = 114/9 = 12.66
remainder of 12.66 = 12.66 - 12 = .66 x 9 = 6
add 5 to 6 to get 11 spice

That's all there is to figuring wildcards.

Trade is my favorite subject, and is getting its own chapter in my little guide, but I haven't gotten to it yet.

[Bloody Monk]

Solo,

Gee whiz!! That's a great example. And now it is clear how these formulas work.

I had two problems. It was not clear how to convert the decimal remainder to a whole number (eg, X14). And I miss-used the coordinates; a process I still do not understand.

The way I see it the Civ expression (18, 12) represents (V, H); whereas, you are using (H, V). Since the "18" row goes from top to bottom, I thought it was a Vertical expression, rather than Horizontal. Same with the "12" going east-west representing Horizontal, rather than Vertical. I guess I just don't "see" it the same way and that basic definitional problem caused big problems for me. But I am certainly willing to adapt for the sake of following these formulas.

Thanks much.

Monk

[solo]

Monk,

Wait until you start trying to figure out Eastern and Western hemispheres! Many of the commodity calculations would have been easier for me to follow if there had been a few examples. It's a good thing that I usually get enough info from wildcards to suit my purposes when playing a game.

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by solo
Monk,

Wait until you start trying to figure out Eastern and Western hemispheres! Many of the commodity calculations would have been easier for me to follow if there had been a few examples. It's a good thing that I usually get enough info from wildcards to suit my purposes when playing a game.

Yeah, I laughed--with sympathy--at that part of the thread. And it still seems murky after the fourth reading. So, you are right about how much I do not look forward to making those adjustments.

Do you go by the wildcard results, alone, when choosing colony sites??

Monk

[solo]

Monk,

Colony wildcards are a factor, but the main qualities I look for in a colony are:

1) Strategic locations that facilitate quick freight deliveries to good AI trading partners. Distance (lack or too much of it) from home is a major factor.

2) Good sites that grow quickly and that have good specials. I look less for shields and more for food and trade.

If many sites qualify, then I pick the ones with better wildcards.

Wildcards are more of a factor when comparing AI cities for inciting revolts, such as Isandlhwara, in this game.

For AI trading partners, the main reason I have for checking demand wildcards is to see if the new ones coming at 32 techs will be more useful than the old ones. Then I gift techs accordingly.

Earlier in the game, all you have is old wildcards, and you can just click on AI cities to see what they are, since they almost always are present as the middle commodity.

During that part of the game, I'll keep track of cycle turns to make sure demanded commodities can be delivered in time, but sometimes when I have something I'd like to deliver and can not find any demand, I'll go into more detail, looking for an AI city where I might be able to trigger it by delivering something else first.

[Bloody Monk]

Solo,

I am doing an exercise, figuring wildcards for this past game, and I have noticed something. I don't remember seeing this in the "Solo Cycle" thread, but may have missed your note of this point.

The Find City screen scrolls thru the cities in pages of 16. Did you know that?? The designers hid that one in plain sight.

Monk

[solo]

I think it's more of a coincidence. Computers use base 2, and multiples of it such as 4,8,16,32, etc. 16 is two bytes, a very common word size. Notice there are also 16 commodities, and 16 of a lot of other things, too.

[Bloody Monk]

Yes, that is true. But the Advisor screen is '9' at a time, and the city advisor is '12' at a time. Not base 2, I think.

Coincidence or not, '16' for find city screen is interesting.

Monk

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by solo
I don't think players should have to feel any stress in order to finish their games in time, and have decided to extend the deadline for the first game until Sunday, March 16th, since I know there are others who might have preferred more time, too. Let's see, over 20 downloads of the start and only a handful of logs posted so far.

The 16th is approaching fast. What happens when we reach the deadline? Are you planning any commentary on the various logs? How about a comparison table? (I guess that would be a log table ) Are there any thoughts on a second game?

RJM at Sleepers

[Bloody Monk]

Is anyone still playing or planning to post a log and save??

Monk

[solo]

On the 16th I plan to post a table summarizing the results for this game.

It could be that everyone planning to post a log for this game has already done so, and since I know that some are anxious to start playing the next game I might as well start a thread for it today along with the start.

[solo]

Here's the table summarizing this game. Thanks to all who participated.

[Bloody Monk]

Solo,

Thanks for that marvelous table!!

Looking over the comparisons, I think SG(2) is most likely to catch up with you. His start is blisteringly fast; and when he picks out the way through the middle, he will improve his landing time very quickly, I think.

It was a very good first game for us.

Monk

[La Fayette]

... and The Monk was very close to The Master
Hat down