OCC size 1, 1586 AD landing.

[samson]

SG, No harbor.

A city is founded on Gold, continues to provide 1 food even after the mine comes in. In my game I worked the ocean square until I had Bridge Building, then switched to a river square that I had mined into Forest and bridged. This provided 3 arrows and 1 food (same as ocean) plus two shields.

As for the DateLine thing, it is extremely rare on a small map for the dateline to cross land squares. And even rarer to get a starting location near it. I have never seen a random map generate a location with two trade specials that could be worked by a size1 city. Of course, you could create one with the map editor.

However, a second trade special would not be of great help in size1 OCC anyway. With a single trade special you can reach a 3 turn tech rate. To reach the next quantum research state (2 turns/tech) you need a size 4 city with at least 3 trade specials and a Railroad trade bonus connection to a foreign city. 1 turn/tech requires a full blown city.


LDICesare,

Are you sure TOT does not give you 1 food if you found a city on Gold? Or are you just assuming that it won't? Try it. If not, then found the city on a river grassland and work the gold square to maximize your arrows.

MGE also has nasty AI and the gold-begging strategy is different with it from the every-turn approach that works in 2.4.2. In that version, you beg less often (giving techs if necessary) but will receive more gold per gift since it accumulates in the AI treasury. The resulting income is usually comparable. Try that approach for TOT.

[Scouse Gits]

samson - does that work with Wine? if you kept the second food once a mine was established you would have a very viable city in any game...

One learns something every day ...

SG[1]

[DaveV]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
samson - does that work with Wine? if you kept the second food once a mine was established you would have a very viable city in any game...

The pre-mining trick verges on an exploit, in my book. A mined wine city square is indeed great, generating two food, three shields, and a bunch of arrows. Not to mention a 2x defense bonus...

[solo]

OCC the ToT way

A few summers back, I introduced my brother-in-law, Kevin, to Civ II during summer vacation, using my MGE edition of the game. When he got back home, he went out and bought ToT, the version being sold in stores at that time. During that winter, I learned OCC from Paul and the other regular participants of his “fortnightly” games. Meanwhile, Kevin was still in that part of the learning curve where deity spaceship wins still seemed unattainable. As we kept in touch throughout the winter, he was amazed at the landing dates we were getting in OCC.

The next summer while on vacation, we played again, using his ToT edition of the game, with the idea that I would play and win an OCC game while he watched to see how it was done. Things were progressing pretty much as usual. I had built the Colossus, had a library and university and had celebrated my city to size 8 or so, when I formed an alliance with some visiting Mongols. On the very next turn, they declared war and conquered my city! So much for OCC lessons!

The editions of Civ II vary a lot! The MGE AI have less patience, the biggest difference being how quickly their attitudes degrade when compared to the AI in 2.42. In ToT, diplomacy with the AI is about as reliable and useful as it was with the Germans shortly before the start of World War II!

[LDiCesare]

Are you sure TOT does not give you 1 food if you found a city on Gold? Or are you just assuming that it won't? Try it. If not, then found the city on a river grassland and work the gold square to maximize your arrows.

I tried, and lost the settler

I sometimes manage to get huge amounts of money from the AI, but most often when not playing OCC. The AI also tends to break alliances on a whim, or asks 50 gold to remain your ally and gives you 100 when you ask it... It makes things a bit difficult. Actually, I still have to land before 1900 in OCC. I also found out OCC was easier on a medium map than a small because the AI is less aggressive when you are farther away. I also find it a good thing not to hoard money as that tends to be lost very fast to aggressive AI demands.

[debeest]

Samson, once again my hat's off to you. I would never have had the nerve to try something like this, whereas you figure out how to do it and then show us.

Re food: one food from the mountain city, and one food from the ocean (or rivered forest), makes two foods. That feeds your one citizen, but what feeds your settler? I would expect to encounter the same problem that LDiCesare did.

[Scouse Gits]

The other Settler is a starting NON ...

SG[1]

[debeest]

D-ohh!!!

LDiCesare, what then was the problem for you? Did the mountain not supply a food?

[samson]

LDiCesare, Solo -- thanks for the info on TOT and OCC. Sounds tough indeed.

[Lars-E]

I am comparing your approach to the OCC guide that Paul made. It seems you forget about factory, power plant, and manufacturing plant and go for caravans/freight instead? You also go straight to republic, skipping monarchy often. If you'd bother could you come up with an alternative to Paul's "OCC strategy reference table"?

There seems to be many things you do different than that reference table.

http://members.home.nl/paulvdb/occref.htm

[LDiCesare]

In ToT, building on mountain gives no food. Thus it is quite hard to live up there.
I understand the difference with the "Paulicy": Republic is better than Monarchy as with a size 1 city, you will always be happy, so researching monarchy is useless as you can't WLTKD with a size 1 city. Factories and such won't give much of a boost if your production is 5 shields, so you need the caravans, freights and gold donation instead. This explains itself nicely, but it was indeed a feat to find it out and accomplish it.
Also note that the Paulicy is not the only way to go, for instance, many people prefer Marco Polo to the Colossus as a first wonder, because it allows you to send your camels where it will provide more trade earlier (and gift techs, etc.).

[samson]

Lars-E -

As LDiCesare states, staying at size 1 eliminates the need for many improvements and/or wonders that are usually built in OCC. Temple/colliseum/Shakespeare are not needed, nor are marketplace/bank etc. Factory, power plant, etc. will produce less than the cost in time and $$$ to build them.

Size1 is a special case. But my OCC play differs from the Paulicy at regular size cities, too. I almost always go straight for Republic, even if Monarchy can be researched right away. The increase in research cost of carrying any extra tech (Monarchy) is more expensive than any early benefit it provides. Also, Republic, when gifted to the AI, boosts the trade arrows of trading partner cities and thus increase trade routes and delivery payments. It also boosts the science of AI civs, allowing more tech exchanges.

My first build is usually Library. This is much more important to boosting science rate than Colossus. After Trade, I'll send out 3 caravans to get the trade routes going and zoom up to size 5 or 6 with WeLove!

The best first wonder, imo, is Copernicus. A 100% boost in science far outweighs the trade increase of Colossus.

The other place I differ from the Paulicy is in city size. I rarely go for refrigeration/supermarket or build a mega city. Each site has an optimal population size for science and production which is often far below its maximum size. I'll often stay at size 12 or less.

[Lars-E]

Thanks for the info on both size 1 and regular OCC. I was thinking of regular OCC.

I'll try and adapt your comments and see if they'll improve my landing dates. If not I'll be back!!