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  • OCC size 1, 1586 AD landing.

    Settings: Deity, 7 civs, raging hoards, random map (small). Civ 2.4.2

    4000BC Indians (Purple), near-polar start, hut in view
    Alphabet, Bronze Working, Ceremonial Burial

    An OCC size1 game is played like OCC, only one city is allowed, with the further restriction of limiting this city's size to a population of 1. This is the ultimate minimalist challenge. The strategy is rather simple and the gameplay straightforward.

    For a city site, you want to find a single trade special close to another civ's capital. You found your city on the special and build road/railroad into the foreign capital to boost your trade routes. You build the science improvements and wonders and not much else except for caravans/freights which are stockpiled for Apollo and SS parts. You make allies of all other civs (you are Pathetic, so this is possible) and beg them for gold every turn. You set science as high as possible and trade for any techs you can.

    3500BC Delhi founded on Gold (2nd settler is mining), worker on Ocean.
    Trade=8, Science=5, Food=2, Shields=1.
    The Persian Capital is 2 squares away.
    3150BC Library built. Science=7
    2650BC Switch to Republic. Trade=11, Science=13
    2300BC Trade discovered. Road to Persepolis completed.
    2250BC 1st Trade Route to P = 4 arrows.
    2200BC 2nd Trade Route to P
    2100BC 3rd Trade Route to P. Trade= 23, Science=27
    Power=Weak, 5 allies, 1 peace.
    1650BC Copernicus Observatory Trade=20, Science=48
    (trade routes = 3 arrows, Persepolis size dropped)
    1450BC University built. Trade=20, Science=64, 4 turns.
    1050BC Switch to Democracy. Trade=29, Science=116, 4 turns
    (trade routes = 6 arrows, Persepolis celebrated to size 6)
    Power=Pathetic, 6 allies.
    675BC Isaac Newton's College Trade=29, Science=174, 3 turns.
    550BC Railroad discovered. Railroad to Persepolis completed
    using charged-up settler. Trade=35, Science=210, 3 turns
    (trade routes = 8)
    450BC Colossus Trade=37, Science=222, 3 turns

    In retrospect, building Colossus was probably a mistake. It only produced 2 arrows of trade (3 after Superhighways), which resulted in 12 additional beakers per turn. Since I was running at 3 turns/tech, this was 36 beakers per cycle. This means Colossus probably extended the 3 turns/tech period by 2 cycles before it went to 4 turns/tech. In other words, Colossus saved 2 turns prior to Superhighways and one turn after. 3 turns saved for a cost of 4 caravans.

    It would have been better to build Marco Polo. The intelligence about other civ's research activities provided by the embassy would have benefitted me more. For example, at least 4 civs researched Monarchy independently in this game. With Marco's I would have known this, traded for Monarchy and given it to the others, switching their research into something else. This could have given me 3 more traded techs and saved 9 turns or more. Plus, there were other research overlaps that MP would have detected.


    275BC Persepolis, size8, (trade routes = 10)
    Trade=43, Science=258, 3 turns
    320AD Superhighways built. Trade=55,Science=330, 3 turns
    trade routes=12. 19 caravan/freights stockpiled. 549 gold.
    700AD Flight. Colossus expires. Trade=52, Science=312, 4 turns
    28 caravans/freights. 1010 gold.
    1000AD Research Lab built. Trade=52, Science=416, 3 turns.
    35 caravans/freights. 1834 gold.
    1160AD Space Flight.
    1180AD Apollo 27 caravan/freights 2234 gold.
    1550AD Fusion Power. Spaceship launched, 15-1-1-1-1-1.
    1586AD SS lands AC.

    Except for building Superhighways and Research Lab at the appropriate times, the middle and end game is mostly about building freights (for SS parts) and begging gold from allies.

    OCC size1 is a much less map-dependent game than fullsize OCC. You only need one trade special (preferrably gold, but others will work) and a nearby civ. The small size ensures lots of allies and gifts of gold and requires less infrastructure than a regular city.

  • #2
    Could you comment on your foreign relations: what were the effects of all those alliances? did you ever agree to a demand that you break an alliance or go to war? did you gift Gunpowder to everyone the same turn as you got it? did the Persians dislike you being so close to their capital? how often did the other civs gift gold? how much, compared to their treasuries? did they drop in attitude if you were asking every turn, even if you did not get anything? what was your defense force? did you ever have a Persian unit wandering around in your city perimeter (doesnt matter if you were only size 1 working the ocean, but I'm curious..)? did you ask anyone to leave? when did you stop gifting techs? had any other civ gotten close to Nucs?

    Comment


    • #3
      Okay.

      Sorry, I assumed most people here had played OCC and were familiar with the diplomatic aspects of a game played in that style.

      The main effect of having 6 alliances is that you have a steady income of gold via 'gifts'. In this game, the Vikings and Persians were the real cash cows. Once their economies were going strong, I could get 50g from each of them every turn, occasionally more. In addition, I would get 50g from the Babylonians, Egyptians, and Greeks about once every four turns. This income allowed me to rush build caravans every other turn for pretty much the entire game.

      No, asking them for cash every turn doesn't bother them much if your civ is Pathetic and has only 1 citizen. Most relations were Worshipful or Enthusiastic throughout. If they dropped to Cordial, I'd throw them a tech or two.

      I only tech-gifted the Romans (white=pathetic) and Babylonians (green=weak) regularly.

      There were a few wars among my allies, but I never got dragged into them. Usually a free tech would soothe any hurt feelings. My defense force was a NON-chariot I got from a hut in the early game, only used for chasing down barb leaders.

      The Persians and I got along fine. As allies we could come and go in each others' territory without trouble. In fact, my 2nd settler spent most of his time improving the Persian capital's terrain ... roads and irrigation everywhere, to boost its population and trade.

      I didn't always work the ocean square. After getting Bridge Building, I bridged a grassland river square and mined it into forest. This gave me the same 3 trade arrows and 1 food as the ocean plus 2 shields.

      I gifted techs to my key-civ right up to and after Space Flight. Nothing withheld, gunpowder, nukes, the works. After Space Flight, of course, all my other allies insisted on a free tech each turn before they would let me beg for gold. This wasn't a problem, I gave them what they wanted.

      After launch, I built a few real defensive units and a spy. But this was really unnecessary, no military threat ever materialized. This is pretty typical for an OCC size1 game.

      Personally, I think OCC size1 is the easiest way to win at Deity. And it'll work with pretty much any random start.

      Comment


      • #4
        I remember how most were skeptical when you appeared on the scene with your "OCC on a shoestring" thread, but not any more!

        I agree about Marco's being the better choice, too, since you can also monitor the AI gold reserves, saving needless contacts when they fall below 50.

        Elephant,

        I looked into gift giving in detail, and found out it works this way:

        1) An alliance is formed to enable gifts. One gift is possible on the turn the alliance is made. After that there is a waiting period of 8 turns until that ally will be willing to part with more gold.

        2) Once the 8 turn waiting period is over, you can ask for gold on any and every turn, and will get some if:

        a) Your power rating is still lower than that of your ally.
        b) Your ally still has more than 50 gold.
        c) Your ally is kept in a good enough mood by your tech gifts or other favors. (a level of enthusiastic or better will do the trick).

        I did not find any evidence that repeated requests, turn after turn, altered the ally's willingness to keep forking over more gold. They only seem to get "peeved" if you ask when one of the conditions above is no longer true. If you try an OCC game and keep your city small, you will be simply amazed at how much gold the AI are willing to part with. Enough to make it pretty boring.

        below is a link to the relevant thread on alliances and gifts

        Last edited by solo; October 24, 2002, 19:36.

        Comment


        • #5
          Great work samson! The game is full of checks and balances and you have demonstrated how kind life can be for the insignificant.

          I'm not a great OCCer but I think you are right about MPE instead of the Colossus. You would have more chance to direct and benefit from the AI research in the early years.

          -----------------------------

          SG(2)
          "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
          "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit

          Comment


          • #6
            I've never tried OCC that small - my problem has been getting ahead of my "allies" and trying to find ways to appease them. I'm often up to size 12 before 1AD, and 20+ within the next 1000.

            I always go for Colossus first, but that is because Bronze-Currency-Trade is usually right after or during my Alph-CerBur-CoL-Monarchy tech path. Definitely go for MarcoPolo next, then the science wonders. Then Shakes or Statue to fundy. But those are all mega-city goals. Learn something new every day here...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Elephant
              I've never tried OCC that small - my problem has been getting ahead of my "allies" and trying to find ways to appease them. I'm often up to size 12 before 1AD, and 20+ within the next 1000.

              I always go for Colossus first, but that is because Bronze-Currency-Trade is usually right after or during my Alph-CerBur-CoL-Monarchy tech path. Definitely go for MarcoPolo next, then the science wonders. Then Shakes or Statue to fundy. But those are all mega-city goals. Learn something new every day here...
              Statue of Liberty..then fundy in OCC...could be the basis for an interesting game. (Thinks...If only the new smilies included one for a DL)

              ------------------------------

              SG(2)
              "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
              "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit

              Comment


              • #8
                Shades of Atlantis

                One of those strange twists, that size 1 with no defenders is easier than building a "real" city.
                (\__/) Save a bunny, eat more Smurf!
                (='.'=) Sponsored by the National Smurfmeat Council
                (")_(") Smurf, the original blue meat! © 1999, patent pending, ® and ™ (except that "Smurf" bit)

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                • #9
                  Just for reference - I have had great success extracting gifts from allies when condition (a) is not met - ie when you are superior to them on the PG - my technique has been to alternate swapping maps with demanding gifts this seems to work like a dream before the 1500 deadline -- sorry guys more empirical, non-tested, non verified evidence for the mill

                  SG[1]
                  "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
                  "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    SG,

                    Very interesting. I did not think to try swapping maps again to re-initiate gifts. I will keep this fine ploy in mind in future games.

                    In the game from which my observations were taken, I had an alliance with every other civ, and also had Marco Polo's to monitor their gold supplies. For a long time I could not figure out why some civs were paying and others weren't until I noticed that I was holding onto enough gold to push my power rating above that of some of the AI. When I spent enough gold to lower my rating enough, sure enough, the gifts resumed. I went back and forth many times with my power rating, above and below selected AI, with confirming results.

                    It just goes to show you that when you think you have an aspect of the game all figured out, an exception to the rule always seems to pop up! It's what keeps this game going.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      definitly great !
                      I often play OCC, with full size city.
                      I tried size 8 without sucess. Size 1 seemed to me to be out of range !
                      I'll try again, and again, and again !
                      JCP
                      Paris, FRANCE

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        you guys are absolutely insane
                        I'm 49% Apathetic, 23% Indifferent, 46% Redundant, 26% Repetative and 45% Mathetically Deficient.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Another thought triggered by Ramses quest for the illusive 5 special site:

                          How would OCC1 play on those funny sites near the date line where it is possible to found on a special and have a second (possibly if not preferably also in use by another civ) within the city radius? Two silk would be nice, but a better combination might exist...

                          SG[1]

                          Edit - to add the rather important word also
                          Last edited by Scouse Gits; October 28, 2002, 08:09.
                          "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
                          "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I tried to see how a size 1 OCC would work, but couldn't manage.
                            First I play ToT, which makes the AI less friendly I believe. Like it often starts asking you a tech (else war or break alliance), so contacting the AI every turn is out of the question (I can't give one tech every turn). Or is it just me? Anyone tried a size 1 OCC in ToT?
                            Also, I can't found on gold and work ocean, as I get only one food out of it and the city starves. That means I would have to go for grass, maybe irrigate it later and switch to ocean/hill/forest when needed in order to remain size 1. How does it work in your version?
                            Clash of Civilization team member
                            (a civ-like game whose goal is low micromanagement and good AI)
                            web site http://clash.apolyton.net/frame/index.shtml and forum here on apolyton)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              ToT is notoriously difficult to play OCC - so don't panic.

                              When you found on a mountain (in normal Civ2) you get one food from that square so you are OK until the mine comes in - many turns down the line - then of course you have a problem, but by careful beaker counting you will probably have had a number of turns when you can safely move from the ocean onto grass or other multiple food square without compromising your science - remember there is NO science carry over when you play OCC - this should keep you afloat until you can afford a harbour which permanently solves the food problem - samson does not mention the harbour in his log so perhaps he has another twist to overcome this problem.

                              Good luck - I don't believe OCC1 has ever been done in ToT.

                              SG[1]
                              "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
                              "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit

                              Comment

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