Calculating beakers needed for the next advance

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by Xin Yu
I can modify the 'lazyciv' program and show ... number of total beakers needed for the current tech.

This would be great. But how can you find it out? I can find out the "next tech number" only...

Originally posted by Xin Yu
But the 'lazyciv' program did not have many downloads, so I suspect maybe not worth the effort.

I thought lazyciv is useful for PBEM only (production changed by the AI)...

[Xin Yu]

ST, you are right. Lazyciv was for PBEM only.

It is very easy to find the memory address for beakers. Via the cheat menu, you can change the number repeatedly and use a memry-reading program to search for the number, so very soon you'll narrow down to a single memory address.

Now I'm thinking about a name for this new program. How about 'Peeping Civ'?

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by Xin Yu
It is very easy to find the memory address for beakers. Via the cheat menu, you can change the number repeatedly and use a memry-reading program to search for the number, so very soon you'll narrow down to a single memory address.

Do you speak about the number of beakers or number of techs? In other words do you find the address for beakers cumulated or total needed beakers?

I thought the memory organization is equal to the .sav file organization, and the I am almost sure that the .sav file don't contain the number of beakers needed.

[Xin Yu]

number of beakers of course. In cheat menu there is an option 'set research progress', and you can put a wierd number there, then you can search it from memory.

[Scouse Gits]

DSS = Decision Support System - sorry I'm a Computer Systems man

HUD = Head Up Display

SG[1]

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by Xin Yu
number of beakers of course. In cheat menu there is an option 'set research progress', and you can put a wierd number there, then you can search it from memory.

So I repeat my question:

Originally posted by Xin Yu
I can modify the 'lazyciv' program and show ... number of total beakers needed for the current tech.

This would be great. But how can you find it out? I can find out the "next tech number" only...

[SlowThinker]

Scouse,
what is a Head Up Display?

I haven't dled ST variant (despite the fact that I routinely save every turn) because to be useful such a DSS has to be always available (some sort of HUD perhaps)

1. I disagree . Number of beakers will tell you an exact number of turn to finish a tech.

2. I agree . I had a plan to write a tool that would do the micromanagement instead of me or serve as an peace-condition AI that would help me in playing.
Unfortunately the Civ2 rules are too complicated, moreover the existence of such a stupidities as the "Black hat bug" makes them even more complicated...

I discovered Civ Evolution, a Civ2 clone that prefers the strategy over the simulation and boosts people that wants to write the AI or some micromanagement tools or DSS for Civ-Evo.
(Link: http://c-evo.org/text.html )
I was fascinated by the idea, but after some time I found out that the realisation is far from perfect .
One day I will write my own game with simple rules and will try to make an AI or a DSS for it...

[SlowThinker]

Xin,
A sidenote about Civ2 programs: I received your PM at CivFan about a month ago:

Xin Yu wrote on Jun 17, 2002 10:22 PM:
Re: an order
...Sorry I did not notice this message till now. It is not entirely impossible but very difficult....Xin

did you get my answer?

Originally posted by SlowThinker
...I tried to start the tool that would open .sav, .net etc. files (my post from 25-05-2002 23:46 in your thread). I succesfully hooked the keyboard, but I have problems with sending keystrokes to the Civ2.exe via the PostThreadMessage proc. I would appreciate if you could help...

[Xin Yu]

ST,

Total number of beakers can be figured out from the range for the 'set research progress' window (0-xxxxx).

I have yet to get a program to insert keystrokes to civ. This was never needed in my programs so I did not bother. I think it is doable though. However when trying to insert multiple keystrokes to civ, make sure you wait 1000 beeps between keys to give civ enough time to respond.

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by SlowThinker
La Fayette, you don't reload typos (moving in a bad direction for example)?

Generally not (I consider it one more luck factor in the game), but when the consequence is important and I really didn't click where I was intending to...then I generally correct my mistake.

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by Xin Yu
Total number of beakers can be figured out from the range for the 'set research progress' window (0-xxxxx).

But how can you find it out programmatically?

[Starlifter]

How to figure the (almost) exact # of beakers for the current advance.


If you simply want the number of beakers necessary for the next advance, it's easy (you can even determine the range of ambiguity).

1. Note the number of turns per advance (e.g., Trade Advisor).

2. Use Trade Advisor to determine the number of beakers your empire is generating.

3. Multiply these two numbers. At that moment, this will meet or exceed the beakers for the next advance.



More accuracy:

Reduce # of beakers generated & increase the numver of turns.... cut the science slider to 0%, and use only one Einstein in a no-science improvement/wonder city. Then just multiply 3*(# Turns). In Fundy, a single einstein will make 2 beakers.

The range of error is +0/-(beakers empire generates - 1)

Example:

Your empire generates 3 beakers. It takes 250 turns for an advance:

3*250=750 +0/-2, or 748 to 750.

Deliver freight accordingly, and adjust science slider & einsteins to cover any remainder.


Big note: Changes in your Key Civ & your Key Civ's accumulated advances can modify this, even during your current turn.... so this is a "point" calculation.



Of course, if you want the exact number, just use Cheat Mode... but the 1 einstein method will get you within +0/-2 beakers.

[La Fayette]

starlifter
If you keep NO Einstein at all and set science to zero, the number of turns required (as given by the game) is EXACTLY the number of beakers needed for next advance.

[Starlifter]

LOL, I never noticed that, Lafayette! Now that you mention it, it all makes sense, and I can even recall the numbers from some prior games.... I guess I have always done it that way because I just leave one lone scientist grinding away turn after turn in mid-game. I just figure the # of needed beakers, and send freght in to exceed it and I'm set for another advance. But the precise technique you have is even better!

You might want to post your technique to this post, where I was also espousing the less-precise 1-scientist technique.

Thanks!

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by Starlifter

You might want to post your technique to this post, where I was also espousing the less-precise 1-scientist technique.

Thanks!

It is not MY technique. In fact I don't know who discovered that, but what you must know is that the great discoverer in the field of research is named SAMSON. He was the one who discovered the method for calculating (not measuring) the number of beakers needed for next advance. He was also the one who discovered the key to tech gifting (the so-called 'key civ').
You can find those results (and many others) in the Great Library (thread #2 on top of the strategy forum). The threads where those findings have been discussed can be found at letter 'B' for Beakers.
Read them. I am sure you will enjoy it.
(well, I'm sure you would enjoy reading the whole GL )