Calculating beakers needed for the next advance

[Xin Yu]

debeest, the net shield production for each city is not there as well -- only the total shield (i.e., without considering support) is stored, then when the game processes a city the net number is calculated.

For the total beaker problem I think we have a pretty good idea how the formula looks like. It should depend on 1) the number of techs you have (excluding starting ones); b) your power rank and the difference between your tech number and the key civ's tech number; 3) map size; 4) a coefficient defined in rules.txt. Once we can figure out that we can calculate the number by ourselves.

[SlowThinker]

debeest, I think I understand. i use 2 monitors, and by default the program loads to my monitor that is on the left side. But my left monitor has the negative horizontal coordinates.
You had to move the program to the visible part of the desktop (using alt-space etc. for example).

Try the file I attached now ( I am sorry, it is not fully finished, but the program is usable and I hope your problem is solved in this "version"...).

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by debeest
Xin Yu, I must say I'm surprised that you haven't found a field that contains either the number of beakers accumulated or the number still needed. I'm not a programmer, but wouldn't it usually be easier to store a number than to recalculate it every time?

Civ2 programers wrote a function that returns the number of beakers needed. In the source code this function is used at the same places as the direct value stored in the memory would be.
You are right that the value is recalculated many times, but programmers needn't to do the recalculation in detail, they only call the function (they write its name into the source code).

The way you mentioned would be more laborious: stored value would have to be recalculated after any event that might change it: key civ obtained a tech, power rank is changed, key civ is changed...

[Sten Sture]

Have any of you programming hex-edit guys tried to get the game to display something other than the beaker graphic on the science advisor screen? Since the game knows how many beakers are in the picture you would think it could show the raw number in lieu of the graphic.

of course like all things that sound simple, that one has got to be impossible...

[shade]

Originally posted by Starlifter
If you simply want the number of beakers necessary for the next advance, it's easy (you can even determine the range of ambiguity).

1. Note the number of turns per advance (e.g., Trade Advisor).

2. Use Trade Advisor to determine the number of beakers your empire is generating.

3. Multiply these two numbers. At that moment, this will meet or exceed the beakers for the next advance.

this would be when you don't have 0 or a negative number I guess .

If we want to discover the exact beaker-algorithm we will probably need someone crazy enough to gather a massive amount of data from 1 single entire game(with 7 civs until at least future tech 50):
1) usual game-info : mapsize/difficultylevel/...
2) check every turn the total amount of beakers needed: if changed write down-->
#tech researching
#beakers needed
#powerposition
#tech all AI have
#turn
#???

any volunteers? I promiss to help ripping the data to shreds

Shade

[debeest]

Um ... if you're generating 0 science, then the listed number of turns per tech IS the total beakers needed. And how can you generate a negative number of science?

And ... hasn't the exact beaker algorithm already been generated, at least for deity mid-size maps? By Samson, I think (how quickly we forget), standing on the shoulders of giants.

[shade]

Originally posted by debeest
Um ... if you're generating 0 science, then the listed number of turns per tech IS the total beakers needed. And how can you generate a negative number of science?

but you can get a negative number of turns/tech ...

I thought this furmula is now been taken under fire??

Shade

[debeest]

How can you get negative turns/tech?

And where has there been any doubt cast on the formula?

[debeest]

ST, your new version works for me. Thanks!

[shade]

Originally posted by debeest
How can you get negative turns/tech?

having a decadent amount of beakers ...
(btw when going in future techs you get to a point where you will need more the 16k beakers/tech)

Shade

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by debeest
And ... hasn't the exact beaker algorithm already been generated, at least for deity mid-size maps? By Samson, I think (how quickly we forget), standing on the shoulders of giants.

debeest,
I remember samson's two threads - The Cost of Research Explained and The Key to Tech Gifting. But I think it was an example only - for deity, small map and 7 civs.

[debeest]

Deity, mid-size map, 7 civs. And someone generated some numbers for small and large maps, I think.

I guess my point is, now we know how the formula works. For those playing other settings, it should be easy to find the numbers to plug into it.

[SlowThinker]

debeest,
There are not only three map sizes possible in Civ2.
Also I dont know how it works with 6 civs for example: the man who alerted me that supreme is not compared to the white but to himself a couple months ago, it was you, I think

So I think some testing would be needed (some points from shade's list would't need to be watched probably).

[Straybow]

Shade!

Haven't seen any updates on your record attempt lately. Slugging away? On sabbatical?

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by SlowThinker
debeest,
I remember samson's two threads - The Cost of Research Explained and The Key to Tech Gifting. But I think it was an example only - for deity, small map and 7 civs.

I also remember those 2 threads (they are in the GL) and I consider that samson has explained the cost of research and has given the key to tech gifting (just like oedo has discovered the xxxo pattern, even if he has not published tables for all levels).
samson was a very brilliant analyst of this game and I very much regret that he suddenly stopped posting about a year ago.

(BTW does anyone know what happened to him?)