Barbarian activity question.

[geofelt]

What determines the level of barb activity? In some games, they appear in good strength, frequently, and in some I never see them at all. Is there a random level picked at the start of every game? I also notice that if you have great wall, the level seems to be much lower.

[rah]

The main determining factor is the barb level selected at the beginning of the game. Raging delivering the most.

But during the game it is dependent on where the open areas are. If you have a tight empire. (cities covering all your territory) you will only see barbs at the border or those that come by boat.

If you have a reasonably good size open area in your empire, it will become a barb spawning hell. Which if set up properly is a good thing, if you're into collecting ransom.

If your empire is tight and there's lots of open room by an AI, you will see very few barbs, even on Raging.

RAH

[DaveV]

My experience has been that barbs tend to show up repeatedly in the same places. I've seen others refer to barb "spawn points". If you're near a spawn point, you'll see lots of barbs; if you're not on the sea lanes and pack in your cities, you may go a whole game with no barbs.

I think if you're in the right (wrong?) place, it can make restless look like raging, and vice versa.

[geofelt]

Sometimes they appear in pairs right next to my capitol as early as b3250. I like to found my first city on the coast with whales. Oher times they do not show up until much later. In addition to the initial raging selection, is there some random dato of first appearance?

[Scouse Gits]

I believe that the first 16 turns are barb free (except from huts) that would agree with your date of 3250BC

[War4ever]

yes the 3250 date seems to be one to be weary of...in our games someone usually says "its 3250 do you know where your children are"

there have been freak occurances where barbs have shown up earlier....i believe if you tip a hut and get barbs....they can then show up anytime after that.....

raging/restless....funny one...i too have experienced the mass of hordes on restless...and not on raging....nothing worse than losing your second set or your newly built third city....and b/c you explore like a madman....you have alot of open space and can never get those sets back there b/c of the barbs.....

funny thing is that is always where your opponent comes from as well.....

someone explain to me how a barb legion comes from a hut when no one has iron working yet.....this one still mystifies me....i thought barbs came out like NON units do....ie that tech must be discovered by someone on the board ??

[rah]

"its 3250 do you know where your children are"
Gee, wonder who says that

The early legion has always mystified me also. I know in a lot of those games, NO ONE had iron yet.

RAH

[Mercator]

Early barbarians don't need any requirements. Here's what Leon Marrick's Advanced Scenario Design says (in turn taken from Harlan Thompson's Advanced Scenario making Ideas:

Piratical Barbarians

Early                    Middle                    Late

Archers                  Crusaders/Knights         Dragoons

Triremes                 Caravel                   Frigate



Frontier Barbarians

Early                    Middle                    Late            Modern

Legion (villages only)   Elephants (uprising only) Cannon          Artillery

Horsemen (uprising only) Knights (villages only)   Musketeers      Partisans

                                                                   Fanatics

It doesn't say anything about specific requirements about when these ages start (certain techs, I presume).
The Early age doesn't need any requirements, these units appear from the start of the game. As far as my experience goes, Legions appear from huts, and only on the surrounding squares with higher defense values, but I'm sure there have been more thorough "studies" on this, right?
So there is no direct link between barbarian units and their "official" prerequisite techs, they just appear after certain trigger techs.

[DrFell]

Originally posted by War4ever
someone explain to me how a barb legion comes from a hut when no one has iron working yet.....this one still mystifies me....i thought barbs came out like NON units do....ie that tech must be discovered by someone on the board ??

Yep it's the barbarian 'ages' system. Legions only appear on mountains or hills when you get hut barbs.

[Julius Brenzaida]

From what I know :
1) In raging hordes, every hut has something in it, never empty.
2) Barbarians never appear from a hut before you found your first city.
3) There is never more than one barbarian unit from a hut before 1500bc, (50 turns of play in deity).
4) When you only have 1 city, your defender always win.
5) The AI has a bonus against the barbs.

From what I believe :
1) You are never attacked at the core of your empire by barbarians
2) Uprising tend to disappear at the end of the game, if you settle everywhere.
3) The more power you have, the more likely you are to be attacked.
4) There can't be more than an appearance in each turn.
5) There can't be more than a certain number of barbarian groups at each time (6 or seven ?)

From what I complain because I am a bad loser :
1) They always attack me first, not the AI.
2) They know which of my cities are undefended.
3) The barb leader always disapear before I catch him.

[Scouse Gits]

Most of our combined wisdom concerning barbarians is enshrined in William Keenan's 'Barbarian Paper' -- if only I could find the damn thing!!!

SG[1]

[DaveV]

a link to the barbarian paper

[Scouse Gits]

Thanks Dave ...

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Originally posted by Julius Brenzaida
4) There can't be more than an appearance in each turn.

You can have 2 appearances if one is by land, the second by sea.

[Campo]

You can have 2 appearances if one is by land, the second by sea.

Your Horseman on the opposite shore will be,
Ready to ride and spread the alarm,
Through every MiddleCiv village and farm,
For the country folk to be up in arm.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

That's from a poem called "The Midnight Ride of Paul Revere" by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow. Boston and New York were in Civil Disorder and SG's ancestors were trying to quell it with musketeers.