Partisans

[Blaupanzer]

Thoddy, My German is pretty rusty. Could you repost your formula here with an explanation in English? In one area, the formula may be correct, but the result is not. My experience is that after Partisan Warfare is developed, the minimum number of partisans is 1, not zero. Must be some sort of an "if" statement in the programming. Thanks for doing the testing.

[Caligastia]

I think you will have more partisans around the city if there are more squares with hills.

[Thoddy]

following things had an effect: technologies at attacker, technologies at defender, city-size, government, occupied citysquares
if cityfounded by attacker->no partisans pop up

no effect: unhappy, contend, happy people; wltxd, cityimprovements, killed defender/attacker, decrease of inhabitants by siege, type of terrain

there are roundings within the formula - so not expected results occur

variables
tague-technology researched by attacker- guerilla warefare 1 yes, 0=no
tdcom-technology researched by defender-communism 1=yes, 0=no
tdgue-technology researched by defender-guerilla warefare 1=yes, 0=no
govindexD- form of government defender index value
govindexA- form of government attacker index value
Index Values
Anarchy=1,Desp=2, Mon=3, Com=4, Fund=5, Rep =6, Dem=7

BND basic number defender
city size 4-11 BND= 4
city size 12-19 BND=9
city size 20-27 BND=15? (testing not available-only 18 city squares)
and so on

BNA basic number attacker - (if Guerilla warefare researched by attacker, if not zero)
city size 4-11 BNA=4
city size 12-19 BNA=8
city size 20-27 BNA=12
and so on

This basic numbers are calculated- including roundings

formula: simplified model no roundings

partisans=tdcom*{[BND]+[BND*tdgue-tague*BNA]-[6-(abs(govindexD-govindexA))*(tdcom+tdgue-tague)] }

For better readability some brackets replaced
terms in [] belong together
negative values=0 partisans

hope that helps
formula corrected 26.06.02 (tvgue*BNA)->tague*BNA)

[Blaupanzer]

Thanks. Looks good. When (if?) I can tear myself away from Civ III will do a little confirmation testing. Again, thanks for your efforts.

[Thoddy]

bump

[Straybow]

"BND*tdgue-tdgue*BNA" = tdgue(BND-BNA) or is it supposed to be
BND*tdgue-tague*BNA ??

[Thoddy]

If I remember right

tague is correct.

If attacker has guerilla tactics the number of emerging partisans decreases.

[SlowThinker]

It looks good! I missed these results last year...

Thoddy,
I suppose BND is related to the conquered city (which produces partisans). But what is BNA?

city size under BNA/BND: do you mean the city size before or after the capture?

Originally posted by Thoddy
BNA basic number attacker - (if Guerilla warefare researched by attacker, if not zero)
city size 4-14 BNA=4

I suppose there should be
city size 4-11 BNA=4

[Thoddy]

BNA- If attacker has guerilla warfare the number of emerging partisans is reduced by this number, depending on city size.

Maybe its possible to create a better formula. I post lots of results of my test in the german forum postet above, so anybody who wants can create a better formula.

city size under BNA/BND: do you mean the city size before or after the capture?

before

I suppose there should be city size 4-11 BNA=4

corrected

I see I was somthing dizzy when I post the results of testing.

[Thoddy]

Originally posted by Caligastia
I think you will have more partisans around the city if there are more squares with hills.

definitively no

defensive terrain has the only effect where the emerging partisans were placed .
first partisan to the best devensive terrain and so on.
There is a special pattern of setting the Partisans you can see, if all terrain is the same.

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by Thoddy
BNA- If attacker has guerilla warfare the number of emerging partisans is reduced by this number, depending on city size.

I am a slow thinker! I thought the BNA should pertain to some attacker's city. Now I think both BNA and BND are related to the conquered city. Am I right?

[TCO]

slow do you finally agree that communism lets loose the evil of partisans. (They are available before Guerilla warfare?) You debated this a long time ago...

[Thoddy]

Originally posted by SlowThinker
I am a slow thinker! I thought the BNA should pertain to some attacker's city. Now I think both BNA and BND are related to the conquered city. Am I right?

Its right.
BNA and BND are related to the conquered city.

slow do you finally agree that communism lets loose the evil of partisans. (They are available before Guerilla warfare?) You debated this a long time ago...

Partisans emerge from conquering cities if the citydefender has communism even without Guerilla warfare.

Guerilla warfare is only required for producing partisans.

[Thoddy]

double Post

[Starlifter]

by GP:

slow do you finally agree that communism lets loose the evil of partisans. (They are available before Guerilla warfare?) You debated this a long time ago..

GP, are you saying that it is only Communism that unleashes Partisans? And nothing else?

ST or GP, Is it possible to provide a link to that discussion? I would like to read it.




A couple observations:

A. Communism is not necessary to produce Partisans.

B. You can have Communism, and not produce Partisans.




The key is the combination of 3 techs:

1. Gunpowder
2. Communism
3. Guerilla warfare

1+2 = Partisans
3 alone = Partisans

1 alone = No Partisans!
2 alone = No Partisans!

In words, anytime civ possess Guerilla Warfare, the civ's captured cities can spew Partisans.

If you have Communism, but No Gunpowder and No Guerilla Warfare, then no Partisans emerge.


So Communism alone will not unleash the evils of Partisans .

But Communism alone is not too common, however... most people discover Gunpowder by then, but it is not necessary to do so. Of course, to have neither Gunpowder nor Communism yet possess GW means you need outside help, like stealing a tech, capturing or trading a tech, or a preset game.

This also means Thoddy's equation, while valid in one context, is only a partial solution to the final Partisan issue.

PS, Nice work, Thoddy! My only work on this was for size 13 and below a couple years ago, with a manual table and no formula.... brute force testing, LOL!