Tasting Ambrosia: Learning to play at Deity level

[Thoth]

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 03-19-2001 06:29 PM I like the Hanging Gardens for ICS - try sleazing without it for a lesson in painful riot control.

I've been working on a game where I missed the HG. I'm not a true ICSer, but I do like lots of cities. Strangely enough, the Pyramids make an acceptable alternative to the HG. Granaries in each of your cities doubles your growth rate. You'll need an entertainer by the time your cities reach size four (earlier once pirates start appearing). Once your cities reach size five, hire two specialists (taxmen or scientists). With three units in the city it will stay out of unrest and remain a stable size five without excessive micromanagement.

An added bonus to this strategy if you manage to get the HG as well as the Pyramids: once you start to get double pirates (two per city) an entertainer will send a size three or four city into WLTKD, producing significant extra trade.

Trade route values are also increased. Larger cities can produce more trade, thus resulting in higher bonuses on delivery.

If you can manage it, the Pyramids backed up by the HG is a very powerful combination. It means you don't get the Colossus, but this isn't a problem if someone like the Egyptians or the Babylonians get it. Each of your 30-40 cities delivers two caravans to the Colossus city. If the commodity happens to be in demand, great, you get a really nice bonus. If not, you still make over 100g, plus a trade route worth at least 4 arrows per turn.
The cash flow from this will allow you to rushbuild a lot of libraries. (this more than makes up for the lower science in your SSC, and procuces some staggering tech results as a Democracy).

[La Fayette]

quote: Originally posted by Dissident on 03-20-2001 05:51 AM question: do you guys rush build ALL your caravans. This may be a mistake by me. I have been building a lot more caravans than I used to, but haven't been rush buying them. I rarely rush buy city improvements later. This is a flawed way of thinking on my part. I don't rush buy because I like to have emergency funds to get the wonder I want. I just don't feel right unless i have close to 1000 gold saved up. But I should be saving money in the form of caravans. This is my goal for my next game.

My answer to your question is:
STEPWISE RUSHBUILDING
(I suppose that most of those who win at deity level use it)
Here is how it works (shieldbox empty):
1) Start building a warrior: this gives you a few shields in the box.
2) Next turn you buy the warrior (gives you 10 shields in the box)
3) Then it's either or:
- either you are rich and wishing to hurry up: you switch to horseman and buy it, then switch to diplo and buy it, then switch to legion and buy it, then switch to legion and buy it, then switch to caravan and buy it (this method gives you a caravan in 2 turns for a cost of 111 gold + 10 shields if your city produces 5 shields/turn).
- or you are poor (or wishing to use your gold elsewhere): you switch to horseman but don't buy it at once (you buy it one turn later, just alike what you did previously with the warrior), and so on (this method gives you a caravan in 6 turns for a cost of 44 gold + 30 shields if your city produces 5 shields/turn).

Avoid global rushbuilding of any unit in 1 turn (too costly).
Avoid building units only with shields (stepwise rushbuilding helps you build faster at low cost).

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aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental

[Scouse Gits]

The economics are fairly simple - incremental (step-wise) rush-buying costs in the region of 2.5 g / shield - rushing a Wonder costs 4 g / shield - yes we rush Carries and Freights - gold is for incremental rushing and bribery - not for putting in banks ...

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Scouse Git[1]

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

[Sieve Too]

Great advice all around. Here's my 2 cents:

Forget the Great Library. The extra techs you get slow down what you actually want to research. Along that vein, as a perfectionist, you should have a research plan devised ahead of time. Know what you want and in what order. Have a secondary goal in mind in case you can't research what you want. Avoid any techs that are not on the path.

The only early improvement you really need is Temple, but avoid it for as long as you can. Marketplaces are next, but only build them when you can get more out of them than their upkeep cost.

For Wonders, I favor HG and Colossus in the early years. You can do without the others. The Midgame can be tough. You want Copernicus in your HG/Colossus city for the SSC, however you need Mike's Chapel badly to deal with unhappiness. Once you have Mike's Chapel, I spend the extra time researching Theology. Just researching it gives you an extra content citizen. It also makes the Oracle obsolete and lets you build JSB. Don't be too quick to build JSB though since you probably won't have a big race to get it. Instead go after Leo's Shop, which the AI values highly. Isaac Newton is also necessary for the SSC. Once you have JSB, Mike's, Marketplaces, one route/city and the ability to build Aqueducts, you are ready for Republic and WLTCD.

Later on, SOL is a good keep-away wonder. Build it to keep the AI from switching to Fundamentalism. Adam Smith is a good investment but not a must. The only modern must-have wonder is Hoover Dam. It's just too good to let the AI have.

For war, a perfectionist just needs safe borders. But first you must kick the AI off your land and establish choke points. To attack, you generally need superior tech. If you head towards Mike's Chapel early, you will get Crusaders which are fast and can kill non-vet units behind walls. Two or three are usually enough to take a city. Later on, one Dragoon can kill any pre-gunpowder unit behind walls. When the AI has Musketeers, you need vet Cavalry to kill them behind walls. Once the AI gets Conscription, you need Spies to take down the walls along with your vet Cavalry. An AI with Tactics is very tough since they can easily retake the cities you conquer with their Cavalry. Vet Artillery (and railroads) let you conquer the city without tearing down the walls. The railroad era brings an extra danger: AI Diplomats gliding in and stealing techs, or worse, retaking cities. Finally, don't forget to keep a stock of Diplos on hand for defense. The AI often attacks with unstacked units. If the terrain makes your counter attack unwise, let the Diplo do the dirty work.

[lord of the mark]

I'll throw my 2 cens in as well, though i dont nknow if im entitled as ive only won deity once, and that was on a favorable map (russians on real world map).

The problem with leos in a peaceful science strat is that it comes on a branch of the tech tree that im usually not pursuing. wheel, etc. I usually am going for math (for copernicus) for philosophy, so getting mikes is realtively achievable, and goes with getting Crusaders (who may not be as good as knights, but fit my reserach strat better) OTOH Leos is still a BIG help even to a relative pacifist - eventually when the world enters the gunpowder era, my phalanxes (many of whom will be green , since i dont have STWA or many barracks) will be inadequate on defense. And building all those musketeers will cost shields at a time (early to mide Republic) when i badly need shields. (in addition to the benefits for engineers and spies) So im of two minds about Leos, though I will note that in my sole deity win I did build Leos. But the happy and science wonders first. If you can get far enough ahead in science and keep your cities happy you can get far ahead of the AI in wonder building. Lots of cities helps, so you can have ltos of caravans going.

Remember that aggressive wonder building not only gives you the WOW, but denies them to the AI, and in some instances can leave the AI with a halfbuilt wonder and no other decent wonders to build,

I built SOL mainly to deny it to the AI. Once youve done that its tempting to use it for commie or fundie yourself. OTOH denying it to the AI doesnt help much if the AI's get their hands on the fundie tech. I delay researching conscription to hold this back, and will not trade a tech on the path to fundie. It may also be necessary to avoid trading techs on the path to demo to keep SOL from AI.

One needs lots of diplos/spies to keep your science lead away from the AI. Once you have so many you will tempted to use them for other things, but dont forget to replace as needed.

I tend to use caravans mainly for wonders, at least till past midgame. there are simply too many useful wonders, and its too difficult to optimize trade. I do try to set up a few trade routes however. Later, when i have bigger cities, marketplaces, and fewer wonders demaning attention i will set up more trade routes.

If i have gotten the HG, mikes, and mysticism i tend to find happiness manageble in demo, with a reasonable amount of luxuries. Therefore there is no good reason to stay longer in republic (if i want to fight offensivly fundie is much better than Republic)


my current challenge is to win on deity using a less favourable map. I've tried japanese and romans on real world maps. The former i was frustrated by the Russians and the later several close neighbors forced me into a more early war type stragey, which im not really that good at yet.

Lately i havent played straight civ2, since ive discovered the "seeds of greatness scenario" Yaay, Hittites!!!!

Lord of the Mark