AI brought tears to me eyes

[Bereta_Eder]

Almost.

I finally found ONE thing that justifies a line that Brian Reynolds has written in the end of CIV 2 manual: that the team of civ 2 «had taught» the AI some tricks that experienced players of civ 1 used.

Well, what happened was this: the japanese were trying desperetly to conquer something of my civ.

They came up with one of my favorite strategies!!!
They amased a fleet of 12 ships (battleships, cruisers, destroyers, AEGIS cruisers, transports filled with marines) and relentlesly attacked IN ONE TURN one of my coastal cities!!!!

Great job from the part of the programers I must say.

The only thing was that, well, their attentions became too apparent. When I saw that must fire power next to my city I immedieatly shifted 15 mech. infantries there(coastal fortress was already in place).

A failed but still admirable attempt.


---
For Markos, Ming and the others at Apolyton:
I am making a pitiful Civ site just for fun. If you find anything useful (I seriously doubt it) it goes without saying that you can get it. I've already sent the lists of wonders and improvements to Apolyton (I am propably the 100th to do so but still).

[rixxe]

WOW, i have never seen the AI attacking the same city with more than 10 units or so,..., could you give more details ??

This is exactly one of the major problem in civII, the AI don't attack correctly,...

[Marko_Polo]

So true, I either haven't seen AI attack in multitudes (only barbs can do that!!). You have witnessed a very rare occasion, Paiktis!

You didn't tell if AI conquered your first coastal city, Paiktis.. (I assume AI did) I'm quite sure he didn't succeeded with that 15 mech inf city And it's quite unnecessary to ask whether you took that first city back from AI next turn

[East Street Trader]

Agree that this is unusual in both the level of military concentration achieved and that the attack had sensible land units supported by (some) sensible naval units.

But disagree that the AI never manages to concentrate its forces at all. If I have an A1 city on one of my fronts which is a bit isolated it will boringly keep building one offensive unit and sending that solitary unit out to fling itself upon a defensive unit sat in a fortress built on defensive terrain against whom it has no earthly chance of success. But if there are a number of A1 cities joined by roads I often find that they send out a wave of attackers which all head for one target. Maybe the cities have just built the units and it is coincidental that they all reach the stage where they are ready to attack on the same turn - but in fact I suspect not and that there is a bit of programming in place which tells the A1 that concentrating its forces is the right way to go.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Of course, this same tendency can lead to those "stupid AI tricks" we all know and love. For example, in a recent game the AI assaulted and took one of my weaker coastal cities. The next turn, I sent in a spy and bought it back. Sitting next to the city -- so that I got them, but they didn't add to the cost of bribing the AI -- were 17 (count 'em!) ships, including 4 vet battleships, an AEGIS cruiser, and a transport with several vet spies aboard! This was, as far as I can tell, the nearly whole damned Zulu navy; I never saw them float anything but destroyers and the odd caravel(!) after that. So there's AI strategy, and then there's AI strategy, I guess.

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Dig trenches, with our men being killed off like flies? There isn't time to dig trenches. We'll have to buy them ready made. Here, run out and get some trenches.
-- Rufus T. Firefly, the original rush-builder

[Bereta_Eder]

Yes, I think there was a bit of programming there too.

The japanese had an enormous fleet but there were oceans to cross. They came with a purpose.

Also, the marines were there to occupy. After some time I actually lost count of the attacks because the transports (besides the ships) were propably filled with marines!!!

They didn't capture the city because it was too obvious they were going to attack. It was like playing against myself

Actually 11 of my mech. infantries survived and that would put the number of battleships they had in their massive naval consentration to 4.

Because the strongest defensive unit took over in each new attack the city was never really in any danger.
Only their battleships managed to succeed against coastal fortress and the mech. infantries.

Another nice point was the inclusion of multiple Aegis cruisers. There was no way to destroy the fleet unless I had some battleships nearby which I didn't. Nuclear attack was also an option but I didn't use it because that would halve my 23 size city to half as well as destroying all their fleet.

Now, maybe I am asking too much but if their ships were one square away to the immideate east, (and if my airplane patrol would not have spotted them) the japanese plan would have actually worked.

From the point that I knew what was going to happen the answer was to shift half of my defensive forces to that city. They could have made this attack a distraction and simultaneously attack the other end of my civ where each city had 1 mech infantry less - one remaining and 2 tanks. But again I am asking too much.

I regret not having kept a save game of the turn before the attack because their massive assault was a spectacle to behold

[Lefty Scaevola]

I just got swamped by a rush of 15 armors in an OCC game. He had been boming one or two at a time for over 500 years, then boom with the hoard.

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Gaius Mucius Scaevola Sinistra
Pontificator Pendanticus
older richer & wiser than you
Did I mention that I like spellcheckers?

[Edward]

I agree with rixxe. The AI just doesn't have the sense to build up an assault team before attacking. If the AI were currently programmed to sometimes use this strategy, I'm sure only a little testing by the game designers would show that bumping up the frequency with which assault teams are built (i.e. more often than once every 10 games) would make for a much more effective AI.

I think the occasional AI massive attacks are caused by either

1) East Street Trader's idea of many AI cities just happening to get their units to the target on the same turn.

or

2) the AI cheating up a big assault team because the game is almost over (you've launched or are near launching your spaceship).

paiktis22 and Lefty Scaevola,
Were these massive attacks launched near when you launched your spaceships?

[Wiglaf]

Coordinated assaults are rare...?

That's all the AI does for me. I have a coastal city and I get about 5 battleships (with sub support) every turn or so. When my base finally gave in, a landing party of no less than 9 (maybe 10) tanks poured in to take it from me.

And on land, the Mongols sent well over 20 archers at me in one game, at one time, very early on, which ended up eliminating me.

Maybe I'm lucky?

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The fault lies not in our SMAC, but in our stars.
~ Vanguard, February 2, 2000.

[Ming]

Just chalk it up to pure luck on the part of the AI.
The AI has no programing for putting together a well coordinated and strong task force.

The AI's strategy is simple... build lots of units, and send them at targets. The fact that they all appeared at the same time and same place is just pure dumb luck. Heck, if the AI actually could plan an attack like that, maybe it would be more fun to play against the AI

[Cyclotron]

I dunno... recently I have experienced several unexplained AI phenomenon.

Case 1: You all know the idea of stacking an artillery unit with a strong defensive one. Well, one time in the early part of my game, the Mongols come marching up with three groups of one legion and one catapult each, moving together! They were nearly more than I could handle, but I drove them off. Ironically, I was so weakened by the attack that NINE barbarian crusaders swept down immediatly afterwards and captured two of my cities. Oh well...

Case 2: I have seen the AI using distraction tactics! I had one battleship guarding a small island city I was just developing. Then... a transport comes up! Loaded! Enemy! It dashes right up to my battleship, and then flees. I catch up to it and destroy it, but another AI ship dashes past me, landing 3 marines in the city. This had a bit more happy ending, as I sunk their transport, bombarded the crap out of all their marines, and paratrooped in to take it back.

Moral: Give the AI some credit, guys!

[East Street Trader]

Cyclotron

Have to say your post gets me thinking maybe I'd better be glad the A1 isn't ordinarily too hot.

I get by with minimal military. This sort of thing would wipe me out. I'd have to totally re-think my play.

I've been sort of doing that getting ready to play MP (when I finally get it together to do so) but meanwhile I guess I'll stop moaning about a weak A1.

[Bereta_Eder]

The spaceship race was still some time off, Apolo wasn't built.
The particular attack seemed (no) WAS coordinated (programmed or lucky). I admit I have played civ countless times and that may have been pure coinsidence but:

1. All ships ended there turn on the SAME sea square next to my city (I think it was the only sea square for my city). No ship attacked before meaning that either all 12 ships had ended all their movement points in EXACTLY that particular square which can happen but it's very odd.

2. NO ship wondered off afterwards they all attacked on the same turn plus the marines were there to capture the city if it had fallen.

On the other hand, in one of the other coastal cities I had like 5 or 6 wonders and THAT city was guarded by four aegis cruisers and 1 battleship. It was not very near but still...

Instead the attack was executed in a no-wonder city although with large population.

Thjere have been times of coordinated attacks by tanks in the way EST described but never yet a naval coordinated assault.

[Bereta_Eder]

Of course from the point that Ming is certain it's luck I bow before his civ wisdom which is greater than mine

But I am still wondering what are those «tricks» that Reynolds has written about? Diplo attacks for one?

[Ming]

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 on 02-01-2001 08:06 PM Of course from the point that Ming is certain it's luck I bow before his civ wisdom which is greater than mine

While I do know a lot about the game (addicts know their addiction), I've been proven wrong before... and will be proven wrong again in the future.

But... I've played thousands and thousands of games against the AI, and I have NEVER seen anything that looked like real strategy. Even a totally passed out drunk General Grant could out think the AI.

I ask one question... If the AI had the ability to plan an attack, why does it keep sending a single unit every three turns to attack that fortified unit in a fortress on mountain... over and over and over and over and over again... for hundreds of years.... dying every time... It's because it is just plain stupid! It doesn't know any better. Any look of a planned attack is luck. The only reason why people think barbs are tough is because they start out in the same place, and there are A LOT OF THEM. Makes it easier to get lucky...