OCC fortnight #20

[Paul]

I haven't received a new scenario for some time, so I made one myself. I used the Pacific map and made some changes to the island we start on. Everything else is unchanged, except the resource seed. Play as the OCCers. All the other civs have been randomly placed. In order to speed up the initial exploration you start with two caravels and two spies. Also, your second settler has been replaced with an engineer. That should make the game go a bit faster for those of us who don't have much time.

Download here.

[tonic]

Downloaded - the conditions for a faster game particularly welcome this fortnight with a few distractions in the horizon.

[Richard Bruns]

Well, my first fortnight attempt was quite a failure:

I guess this doesn't really count. I had to restart after finding an advanced tribe because I had forgotten to save. But I really didn't learn much about the map the first time. Anyway, it was a failure as well. I was doing horribly the whole time.

4000: 50 gold from hut, SSC founded
3750: Alphabet
3650: Horseback riding from hut
3350: "You have unleashed a horde of barbarians." No barbs appear.
3200: Code of Laws, Map Making from hut
3000: For lack of anything better to do, I have bilt a barracks and sold it. 40 gold. Lighthouse started. Pottry from hut.
2900: hut, 25 gold
2800: barb from hut, can't bribe. Luckily a light blue horseman kills it.
2750: Meet Chinese, Map Making for peace, Horseback riding for Masonry (I had gambled that they had something better) No alliance. Bribed the horseman for 42 gold.
2650: Mathematics from hut
2450: 50 gold from hut, barbs from hut, bribed the lone horse with that gold.
2350: Seafaring from hut. This is getting ridicululous. Bronze Working from hut. Finally, something useful. Give all techs to chinese, get nothing. Typical.
2250: Warrior Code from hut. I'll never reach Monarchy at this rate.
2200: 100 gold from hut. Meet babylonians, trade for ceremonial burial. Give all techs, get maps but no alliance. I see the English on their maps.
2150: Meet english, refuse tech trade (I'm researching Monarchy), get peace, give techs for alliance, they are worshipful but they want me to declare war on babylonians, which I won't do. Establish embassy.

Meet sioux, trade Horseback Riding for currency, Give Ceremonial Burial for peace, I know there is no chance of alliance because they are at war with Chinese. I give techs for map, try alliance, they accept! no gift, though.
2100: Iron working from hut Barbs from hut, kill it. Legion from hut, right next to London. I get an idea...demand tribute to goad English into war.
2050: kill London's only defender. If I do this right, I can wipe them out without getting a city. Bribe Babylonian chariot for 67 gold to help war effort. Get Trade from hut; I'm now glad I got currency. I'll now be making caravans in despotism
2000: Capture a size one London, eliminating the English. Sioux offer 200 gold to kill Babylonians, this is tempting. I wish I hadn't withdrawn that Chariot earlier...I declare war.
1900: 50 gold from hut. Buy Colossus with this and Sioux money.
1850: Colossus built, start cranking caravans. Legion killed by Babylonians. Sioux expel spy!
1800: Chinese destroyed by Sioux
1750: Horseman from hut, near Babylon. My engineer has done everything it can.
1500: Sioux alliance cancelled. All units returned to SSC Warriors disbanded, since NON units are now home.
1350: No way to get 10 shields. Caravans bought in full.
950: Monarchy, finally.
775: hut mercs, hut 25 gold
750: meet egyptians, they demand 100 gold, I refuse and they decalre war. Maybe I can wipe them out like the English. . .

Later...

This game is hopeless. I'll never survive.

Results: I need to learn better diplomacy. FE I should get treasury down below 50 before contacting people. I hate giving them gold, and they always declare war on me. I also hate it when my allies demand that I fight. I either gain an enemy or lose a friend. How do you avoid this?
[This message has been edited by Richard Bruns (edited November 19, 2000).]

[tonic]

quote: Originally posted by Richard Bruns on 11-19-2000 10:00 PM This game is hopeless. I'll never survive.

Maybe for this first try, but you'd get the hang of it after a few more tries keeping to the established strategy. Most of us have taken the same road, believe me

quote: Results: I need to learn better diplomacy. FE I should get treasury down below 50 before contacting people. I hate giving them gold, and they always declare war on me.

Yep, a helpful tactic! BTW one way to easier diplomacy is by optimising early exploration and finding the AI civs ASAP before they have time to contact one another and starting their requisite wars. Alliances are much easier to make this way.

quote: I also hate it when my allies demand that I fight. I either gain an enemy or lose a friend. How do you avoid this?

What version are you using? You'd probably have a harder time with this using MGE. I only use 2.42 where a lot depends on the attitude of the asking civ. If it is enthusiastic or worshipful, then I find refusal doesn't result in the loss of the alliance. The moral is to keep the attitudes sweet by frequent tech gifts which you maintain by cranking up your science rates, the essence of OCC.

[Mercantile]

help, i cn't play occ, it starts a sim city 2000 game. has any one else experienced this

[Scouse Gits]

Mercantile - I think this is caused by your double clicking on the .sav file - SimCity 2000 seems to have claimed .sav as its own - a pretty silly thing to do!!

If you simply open Civ II and select Load Game then browse until you locate your new .sav file you7 will be OK

All - I think I might try this one - [excuse mode]I'm very rusty and don't have any goblins to help me[/excuse mode]

Good civin'

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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

[Richard Bruns]

Yes, I have MGE. They go from worshipful to hostile in one turn, no matter what I do. This means that when they contact me to ask for a war, they are always unccoperative at best, and I never have the chance to improve that attitude before refusing the request.

Those computers are the most sociopathic AI leaders I've ever seen. To get an alliance, they usually have to be worshipful with no wars. If you refuse any demand from an ally, you lost the alliance. If you refuse any demand from someone at peace, you get a war. If you ask for a gift, you usually lose the alliance. If you demand tribute, you usually get a war. And this is with a spotless reputation!

It seems that the only way to survive is to become as hostile and vicious as they are, because kindness gets you nowhere.

[tonic]

Richard Bruns: I've had a quick look at your log and it seems you missed researching Bronze Working as your first priority so that you could build the Colossus. This way you will not have to mark-time by building unwanted improvements and science and gold will also go up considerably.

On the MGE challenging AI attitudes, Ribbanah's the one to talk to. He seems to have tamed it considerably!

Oldman: When are you coming back to do your scenarios again?

Mercantile and SG: Yes, the culprit could well be the *.sav extension. On my system it's associated with the stats program, SPSS, which takes a while to load and to get rid off - a real nuisance.

[Mercantile]

Scouse Gits, i tried what you said and i looked into the occ20 folder and nothing was inside it, this is after i unzipped it of course, this all happening when i am loading a civ game.

I get out of civ and i open the occ20 folder and low and behold there is the emblam and it says simcity scenario

Of course simcity starts when i use it, stupid thing never starts when i click on the shortcut to it that was built in to my computer, but thats another story for another time.

So now i am not sure what to do about this problem as i wish to try out these occ games

Tonic any idea how i bypass this problem ?

------------------
Do you shovel snow in your birkenstocks?

[tonic]

Mercantile: It seems to me that your OCC20 file has been somehow corrupted. All I can suggest is that you download it again from Paul's URL. Then I would unzip it straight away into the directory where your civ2.exe (usually the \mps\civ2 subdirectory). It is in scenario format, so the file should be occ20.scn (if the old scenario is there, you should delete it).

Then all you do is start civ2 and select "load a scenario" and you should see occ20 listed for you to select.

[Oldman]

Ah ha!! a quick one by the look of it, what with the engineer and boats and stuff!!! i might even give this one a go myself... Don't start tutting SG1, I've been looking at excel for 2 days and need something else to distract my mind!?!

[Scouse Gits]

Sorry, Mercantile - my error - i replied before I had opened the file myself - what you have in the zip is a .scn file (a scenario file) and the way to access it is to open Civ II, select 'Start Scenario' then browse to and select "occ20.scn" - problem solved!
The reasons we sometimes (often) use scenarios rather than save games for the fortnightly OCCs are twofold[list=1][*]You can select your preferred difficulty level, and[*]As in this case when a certain amount of judicious manipulation has been performed - using a scenario prevents the cheat flag from flying all the time[/list=a]My apologies for the misleading information earlier...

[p.s. Oldman - don't neglect your coursework!]

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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

[Smash]

I tipped 65 huts.That had to be close to all of them.The ai had a tough time on this map.The French only managed 2 cities all game.

deity 2.42

A/C-1396ad

Collosus-2300bc
Cope’s-850bc
Shake’s-550bc
Sir Isaac-150bc
Darwin’s-260ad
Apollo-960ad

Monarchy-2650bc
Republic-1050bc
Democracy-225bc

12-800bc
21-300bc

1.1200bc
2.1200bc
3.1150bc

Trade-2150bc
Construction-1300bc
Sanitation-700bc
Refigeration-180ad
Automobile-420ad
Computers-680ad
Space Flight-940ad


4000-hut-horseman-Rome-resupport spys
3800-warrior
3750-Bronze Working-switch warrior to wonder -1 sheild
3650-hut-50 gold
3550-hut-chariot-NON
3450-hut-Currency
3400-hut-Burial
3300-hut-archer-NON
3250-contact China-trade for Alpha and Laws-peace-hut-archer-NON
3100-hut-barb legion(ignores spy next turn)
3050-contact Egypt-gift all-alliance
3000-hut-25 gold-hut barb legion(ignores spy)
2850-hut 50 gold
2750-Monarchy-trade China for Writing-hut-Mystism
2700-revolt-hut 50 gold-China pays tribute 25-Egypt gifts Pottery
2650-govt Monarchy-hut-Horseback Riding-hut barb horse-bribed 41
2600-Trade Egypt for Masonry-hut barb horse-terminated
2550-contact French-trade for Map Making-gift all-peace-share maps-
2500-share maps with China and Egypt-hut-Literacy
2450-disband warrior
2350-Collosus-hut-Math
2300-contact Babs-peace share maps-hut-archer NON
2150-hut-50 gold-hut 50 gold-hut-barb horse-bribed 41-trade China for Trade-Egypt gifts 50
2100-library
2050-hut-horseman-NON-contact England-gift all-peace-share maps
2000-contact Sioux-gift all-alliance-share maps-receive 100-hut Feudalism-hut-horseman-NON
1950-size 4
1900-we love the king-silk caravan-hut 50 gold-hut-barb horse-terminated-hut-Iron Working-hut-horseman-NON
1800-beads caravan
1750-disband horseman-hut-barb horse-hut-The Wheel
1700-dye caravan-horseman KIA-hut-horseman-NON-Babs gift 25-Chinese pay tribute 50
1650-hut-legion-non
1600-Egypt gifts 50
1550-market-hut 25 gold-hut chariot-non-Babs gift 25-
1500-hut-barb horse-hut- barb raiding party
1450-chariot KIA-temple-
1400-hut-legion non-
1300-hut-Construction-hut-legion non-hut-50 gold-alliance with French-receive 50-Babs gift 50
1200-Philosophy>Republic-colliseum-caravans to Thebes-dye 196-silk(demanded)398
1150-Astronomy-beads to Thebes 196-hut 25
1100-aquaduct-revolt
1050-govt-Republic
1000-caravan-hut 25-”we love” 4
975-caravan-trade Sioux for Engineering
925-caravan-hut-legion non
900-hut-barb horse-hut-Invention
875-caravan
850-Cope’s-hut-50 gold
825-Medicine-hut 25 gold
800-coal caravan-end we love 12
775-caravan-Sioux gift 25
725-caravan-Sioux gift 25
700-Sanitation-hut 50 gold
675-caravan
650-hut-50 gold
625-caravan-hut 50 gold
600-caravan
575-Seafaring-caravan-sell colliseum
550-Shake’s-trade Egypt for Banking-recieve 50-sell temple-hut-legion non
525-”we love” 12-hut-chariot non
500-sewer-hut 50 gold-Babs 50-Egypt 50-Sioux 50
450-University-harbor-coal to Thebes 252-hut 25
425-hut 25
400-bank-Egypt 50-Sioux 50-hut chariot non-hut 50 gold-hut-25 gold
375-Gravity-hut legion non
350-build university-hut 50 gold
300-Democracy-end “we love “ 21-hut 50-Egypt 150
275-caravan-hut 50 gold-
250-Economics-revolt
225-govt Democracy-caravan
175-Bridge Building-caravan-Babs 50-Egypt 100-Sioux 50
150-Sir Isaac’s-”we love” 21-hut 50-hut 50
125-Gunpowder
100-dye caravan
75-Chemistry-end “we love” 24
50-salt caravan
25-Explosives-trade Egypt for Navigation-receive 100-barb leader 150
----------------------------------------------
1AD-stock exchange
20-Metallurgy
40-Sioux gift 100
60-Physics-hut 100-Egypt gifts 100
80-caravan
100-Magnetism
120-caravan
140-Electricity
160-engineer
180-Refrigeration-caravan-dye to Thebes 310 salt 310
200-Steam Engine
220-supermarket
240-Railroad-caravan-Babs-50
260-Darwin’s>Industrialization>The Corporation
280-Steel
300-factory-”we love” 23
340-Refining-dye freight
360-end “we love” 26-sell sewer
380-Combustion-gems freight-sell aquaduct
400-gold freight-trade Egypt for Conscription
420-Automobile
440-superhighway
460-Mass Production
480-trade English for Chivalry
500-Electronics
520-hydro plant
540-Leadership-freight-gold to Thebes 513 gems 525
560-Tactics-gold freight-dye to Thebes 525
580-gems freight
600-Machine Tools
640-Miniaturization
660-offshore platform
680-Computers
700-research lab
720-Mobile Warfare-freight
740-freight
760-Robotics-coal to Thebes(demanded)1312
780-Flight-manufacturing plant-gems to Thebes 276
800-coal freight-bribr barb dragoon 102
820-Radio-freight-gold to Thebes 272
840-freight
860-Advanced Flight-armor-Sioux cancel alliance
880-walls
900-Rocketry-armor
940-Space Flight-coal to Thebes(demanded)660
960-Apollo
1000-Plastics
1060-Atomic Theory
1120-Nuclear Fission-French cancel alliance-Egypt gifts 50
1180-Nuclear Power
1240-The Laser
1300-Superconductor
1360-Fusion Power-15-1-1-1-1-1 ready LAUNCH
the usual array
1396-ARRIVAL A/C

[Paul]

Smash, you didn't tip all the huts. I tipped 70 huts in my game. But I landed one turn after you, in 1416. I was led away from the path to monarchy by all those hut advances and I also was much later with my caravans because I sent to the other side of the world where they were demanded. I should have sent them to the Egyptians, because they were closer to my island.

AC: 1416

Monarchy: -1450
Republic: -825
Democracy: -125

Colossus: -2350
Copernicus: -575
Shakespeare: -450
Newton: -200
Darwin: 380
Apollo: 980

Trade routes: -500,-425, -250

Size 12: -625
Size 21: -200

Trade: -1850
Construction: -925
Sanitation: -475
Refrigeration: 140
Automobile: 400
Computers: 720
Space Flight: 960

4000 BC Hut: Archer
Rome
3800 BC Warrior
3750 BC Bronze Working
Hut: 50 gold
3400 BC Hut: Horsemen
3350 BC Alphabet
3250 BC Hut: Archer
3200 BC Egyptians: Trade Ceremonial Burial; alliance
3000 BC Hut: Barbarians
Hut: Archers
Hut: Horseback Riding
2950 BC Hut: Map Making
2850 BC Babylonians: peace; share maps
Egyptians: share maps
Hut: Barbarians
2800 BC Hut: 100 gold
Hut: 50 gold
2750 BC Hut: Masonry
2700 BC Hut: Currency
2650 BC Hut: Barbarians
2550 BC Hut: Mathematics
Babylonians: trade Pottery
Egyptians: trade Mysticism; gift 25 gold
Hut: Seafaring
Hut: Archer
2500 BC Hut: Warrior Code
Hut: Barbarians
2350 BC Colossus
Hut: Barbarians
Hut: Archer
2300 BC Babylonians: tribute 50 gold
2250 BC Hut: 50 gold
2200 BC Chinese: trade Code of Laws, Writing; peace; share maps
2150 BC Library
2100 BC Hut: Barbarians
1950 BC French: peace; share maps
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: Archer
1850 BC Hut: Trade
1800 BC Marketplace
Hut: Wheel
Hut: Chariot
1600 BC Hut: Monarchy
1550 BC Chinese: alliance; gift 25 gold
Egyptians: gift 50 gold
1500 BC Build Salt Caravan
Revolution
Hut: Polytheism
Hut: Barbarians
1450 BC Gov: Monarchy
Egyptians: trade Literacy; gift 50 gold
1400 BC Build Beads Caravan
Hut: Archer
Hut: Archer
English: share maps; alliance; gift 100 gold
1350 BC Hut: Astronomy
1250 BC Hut: 25 gold
1200 BC Build Silk Caravan
Hut: 100 gold
1150 BC Hut: 50 gold
1100 BC Harbor
1050 BC Temple
Sioux: peace; share maps
Chinese: gift 25 gold
Egyptians: gift 50 gold
Babylonians: tribute 75 gold
1000 BC Hut: Iron Working
Hut: Horsemen
975 BC Hut: Legion
950 BC Hut: Feudalism
925 BC Babylonians: trade Construction
Hut: Navigation
French: alliance; share maps; gift 50 gold
900 BC Build Dye Caravan
Hut: Elephant
Hut: Bridge Building
Hut: 50 gold
850 BC Hut: Republic, revolution
Babylonians: tribute 100 gold
Chinese: gift 50 gold
English: gift 25 gold
Hut: Chivalry
825 BC Gov: Republic
Hut: Knight
Start WLTCD, size 5
800 BC Colosseum
Hut: Barbarians
775 BC Hut: Engineering
Hut: Barbarians
English: gift 50 gold
750 BC Aqueduct
Hut: Banking
Hut: Invention
725 BC Hut: Legion
Hut: Knight
675 BC Hut: Legion
Hut: 50 gold
650 BC Hut: 50 gold
625 BC Philosophy, Medicine
Hut: 100 gold
End WLTCD, size 12
English: gift 50 gold
Egyptians: gift 50 gold
600 BC Hut: Legion
575 BC Copernicus' Observatory
550 BC Hut: Knight
English: gift 50 gold
Egyptians: gift 25 gold
French: gift 25 gold
525 BC French: gift 150 gold
500 BC Bank
Sold Colosseum
Hut: Barbarians
Beads to Canterbury (demanded): 594 gold
475 BC Sanitation
Hut: 50 gold
Egyptians: gift 50 gold
Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 25 gold
Sold Temple
450 BC Shakespeare's Theatre
Start WLTCD, size 12
425 BC Silk to London (not demanded): 426 gold
400 BC Sewer System
Hut: 50 gold
350 BC University
325 BC University
Hut: 50 gold
275 BC Hut: 50 gold
250 BC Theory of Gravity
Salt to Ur (not demanded): 470 gold
Egyptians: gift 25 gold
Chinese: gift 150 gold
225 BC English: gift 100 gold
Chinese: gift 50 gold
Egyptians: gift 25 gold
200 BC Isaac Newton's College
Economics
End WLTCD, size 21
175 BC Hut: 50 gold
150 BC Build Coal Caravan
125 BC Democracy, change gov
English: gift 150 gold
Start WLTPD, size 21
100 BC Stock Exchange
Egyptians: gift 25 gold
75 BC Physics
50 BC Build Gems Caravan
25 BC Magnetism
English: gift 100 gold
Egyptians: gift 50 gold
End WLTPD, size 24
1 AD Hut: 50 gold
20 AD Gunpowder
60 AD Metallurgy
100 AD Electricity
Chinese: gift 50 gold
English: gift 200 gold
140 AD Refrigeration
Dye to Thebes (demanded): 572 gold
160 AD Supermarket
Chemistry
Coal to Thebes (demanded): 715 gold
180 AD Explosives
Gems to Heliopolis (demanded): 744 gold
Egyptians: gift 50 gold
200 AD Engineer
Steam Engine
240 AD Build Gold Caravan
Railroad
Egyptians: gift 25 gold
Chinese: gift 50 gold
English: gift 100 gold
280 AD Industrialization
320 AD Corporation
360 AD Steel
Chinese: gift 100 gold
English: gift 100 gold
380 AD Darwin's Voyage: Refining, Combustion
400 AD Automobile
Gold to Thebes (not demanded): 195 gold
420 AD Superhighways
Start WLTPD, size 23
440 AD Electronics
480 AD Build Gems Freight
Conscription
520 AD Build Salt Freight
Leadership
End WLTPD, size 27
560 AD Tactics
Transport
Egyptians: gift 150 gold
Chinese: gift 100 gold
English: gift 200 gold
600 AD Factory
Machine Tools
620 AD Sold Sewer System
640 AD Power Plant
Miniaturization
Sold Aqueduct
680 AD Offshore Platform
Mass Production
Barb Leader: 150 gold
720 AD Computers
Gems to Memphis (demanded): 1157 gold
740 AD Research Lab
Mobile Warfare
Salt to Memphis (not demanded): 537 gold
760 AD Robotics
800 AD Manufacturing Plant
Flight
Egyptians: gift 50 gold
Chinese: gift 100 gold
English: cancel alliance
840 AD Radio
880 AD Advanced Flight
920 AD Rocketry
960 AD Space Flight
980 AD Apollo Program
1020 AD Plastics
1080 AD Atomic Theory
1140 AD Nuclear Fission
1200 AD Nuclear Power
1260 AD Laser
1380 AD Fusion Power
Launch
1416 AD Arrive at Alpha Centauri

[Mercantile]

Scouse Gits, well once again you have come through in a pinch. I followed your instructions and voila, the game works Well i will try this one tonite when i get some time and now it looks as if i have 19 occ games to catch up on Thanks again

Tonic my hearty thanks to you as well. Its the second time i have had to edit to give you proper credit as well, my bad
[This message has been edited by Mercantile (edited November 21, 2000).]