Fortnight OCC - Second Edition - Results and Logs

[Sten Sture]

Tom DeMille has generously contributed a Monarchy start!

Please post your results and logs here. Paul has posted the game to his web site, and promises to best his 1775 record.

link to Paul's save link http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HT...tml?date=13:03

[This message has been edited by Sten Sture (edited January 27, 2000).]

[Tom DeMille]

OK, here is my log. I didn't bother listing food caravans, but otherwise it is pretty complete. First, I'll list what I would consider the top ten highlights.

1700 BC - built Colossus
950 BC - The Republic
650 BC - built Copernicus' Observatory
400 BC - built Shakespeare's Theatre
100 BC - size 21
60 AD - Allied with all 5 neighbours
540 AD - Refrigeration
860 AD - Automobile
1580 AD - Apollo Program
1779 AD - Landing at AC

Here's the full log:

start with Alphabet, Ceremonial Burial, Code of Laws, Masonry, Monarchy
3900 BC - archer (hut)
3800 BC - Bronze Working (hut)
3750 BC - horsemen (hut)
3700 BC - chariot (hut)
3700 BC - revolution
3650 BC - found Ottawa, switched to Monarchy
3450 BC - built warrior
3400 BC - Pottery (French)
3400 BC - Writing (French), alliance
3250 BC - built warrior
3100 BC - Currency (hut)
3000 BC - built phalanx
2900 BC - legion NONE (hut)
2900 BC - Trade (hut)
2750 BC - Map Making
2750 BC - Mysticism (English), peace, share maps
2750 BC - share maps with French
2700 BC - Horseback Riding (hut)
2700 BC - peace with Aztecs
2700 BC - 25 gold (French)
2600 BC - legion (hut)
2450 BC - Warrior Code (Babylonians), peace
2400 BC - alliance with Babylonians, share maps
2400 BC - 50 gold (French)
2250 BC - 75 gold (Aztecs)
1950 BC - share maps with Babylonians, French, English
1850 BC - Construction
1850 BC - 25 gold (Babylonians)
1850 BC - 100 gold (Aztecs)
1700 BC - built Colossus
1650 BC - 25 gold (Babylonians)
1650 BC - 25 gold (French)
1650 BC - 50 gold (Aztecs)
1600 BC - built Library, disband warrior
1550 BC - built Marketplace
1450 BC - built Temple
1400 BC - Literacy
1400 BC - alliance with Aztecs, English
1400 BC - 50 gold (English)
1350 BC - built caravan
1300 BC - 50 gold (Babylonians)
1250 BC - share maps with English, Aztecs
1250 BC - built caravan
1150 BC - built caravan
1000 BC - Seafaring (French)
975 BC - 50 gold (Babylonians)
975 BC - 100 gold (Frecnh)
975 BC - 50 gold (Aztecs)
975 BC - 50 gold (English)
950 BC - The Republic - revolution
950 BC - built colosseum
925 BC - switched to Republic
900 BC - begin WLTSD (pop is 5), disband warrior
850 BC - 50 gold (Babylonians)
850 BC - 75 gold (French)
850 BC - 25 gold (Aztecs)
850 BC - 50 gold (English)
850 BC - 172 gold (beads caravan)
825 BC - Mathematics
825 BC - built Aqueduct
725 BC - end WLTSD (pop now 12)
700 BC - Astronomy
700 BC - 202 gold (hides caravan)
675 BC - Philosophy
675 BC - University
675 BC - 100 gold (English)
650 BC - built Copernicus' Observatory
650 BC - sell Colosseum, disband phalanx
650 BC - 50 gold (Babylonians)
600 BC - Medicine
600 BC - Banking (French)
600 BC - 50 gold (French)
600 BC - The Wheel (Celts), peace
600 BC - Iron Working (Celts)
575 BC - built University
575 BC - 381 gold (gems caravan)
550 BC - Bridge Building
550 BC - share maps with Celts
525 BC - 50 gold (Aztecs)
475 BC - 25 gold (English)
450 BC - Engineering
425 BC - 50 gold (Aztecs)
425 BC - 50 gold (Babylonians)
425 BC - 50 gold (French)
400 BC - built Shakespeare's Theatre, sell temple
400 BC - Polytheism (Celts)
350 BC - Sanitation
325 BC - built Sewer System
325 BC - begin WLTSD (pop is 12)
250 BC - Economics
225 BC - built Harbour
225 BC - 50 gold (Babylonians)
225 BC - 150 gold (French)
225 BC - 100 gold (English)
175 BC - built Bank
150 BC - Theory of Gravity
100 BC - end WLTSD (pop is 21)
100 BC - built caravan
100 BC - 50 gold (English)
50 BC - built caravan
50 BC - Invention
25 BC - 50 gold (Babylonians)
20 AD - Democracy - revolution
60 AD - switched to Democracy
60 AD - alliance with Celts (Allied with all 5 neighbours!)
60 AD - 50 gold (Aztecs)
100 AD - Chemistry
100 AD - 50 gold (French)
140 AD - Gunpowder
160 AD - built Isaac Newton's College
180 AD - Explosives
200 AD - built engineer
200 AD - 50 gold (English)
220 AD - Feudalism
220 AD - 237 gold (caravan)
240 AD - built Stock Exchange
260 AD - Navigation
260 AD - French break alliance
300 AD - Physics
300 AD - built caravan
340 AD - Chivalry
360 AD - 50 gold (Celts)
360 AD - 50 gold (Babylonians)
360 AD - 50 gold (Aztecs)
360 AD - 50 gold (English)
380 AD - Magnetism
420 AD - Metallurgy
460 AD - Electricity
500 AD - Steam Engine
540 AD - Refrigeration
540 AD - 258 gold (caravan)
560 AD - built Super Market
620 AD - Conscription
660 AD - built engineer
660 AD - begin WLTPD (pop is 19)
660 AD - 150 gold (Celts)
660 AD - 75 gold (Babylonians)
660 AD - 50 gold (English)
680 AD - Industrialization
740 AD - The Corporation
760 AD - end WLTPD (pop is 24)
800 AD - Refining
820 AD - built Darwin's Voyage
820 AD - Steel
820 AD - Combustion
860 AD - Automobile
860 AD - 264 gold (caravan)
860 AD - 50 gold (Celts)
880 AD - built Superhighway
880 AD - begin WLTPD (pop is 24)
900 AD - Electronics
920 AD - built Factory
920 AD - end WLTPD (pop is 26)
940 AD - built Hydro Plant
940 AD - Atomic Theory
980 AD - Mass Production
1020 AD - Leadership
1020 AD - 50 gold (Celts)
1060 AD - Nuclear Fission
1060 AD - war with French
1080 AD - built rifleman
1100 AD - Tactics
1100 AD - built rifleman
1160 AD - Genetic Engineering
1200 AD - Machine Tools
1200 AD - 50 gold (Celts)
1200 AD - 200 gold (Babylonians)
1200 AD - English break alliance
1240 AD - Mobile Warfare
1280 AD - Miniturization
1280 AD - sold aqueduct
1300 AD - built Oil Platform
1300 AD - sold sewer system
1320 AD - Computers
1340 AD - built Research Lab
1340 AD - Robotics
1400 AD - Flight
1420 AD - 50 gold (Celts)
1420 AD - 300 gold (Babylonians)
1420 AD - 75 gold (Aztecs)
1440 AD - Nuclear Power
1440 AD - 100 gold (Aztecs)
1480 AD - Radio
1480 AD - 200 gold (Babylonians)
1480 AD - 100 gold (English), alliance
1500 AD - 50 gold (Celts)
1510 AD - Advanced Flight
1510 AD - peace with French
1530 AD - Rocketry
1530 AD - 100 gold (Babylonians)
1550 AD - The Laser
1570 AD - Space Flight
1580 AD - built Apollo Program
1590 AD - Plastics
1610 AD - Superconductor
1620 AD - Communism (Aztecs)
1640 AD - Combined Arms
1670 AD - Fusion Power
1700 AD - Espionage
1730 AD - 15 structural done
1740 AD - Stealth
1754 AD - Recycling
1764 AD - Launch Spaceship (arrival 1779)
1765 AD - build barracks (then some tanks)
1766 AD - Environmentalism
1769 AD - Amphibious Warefare
1769 AD - built Solar Plant, sell hydro plant
1770 AD - built Mass Transit
1772 AD - Future Tech, begin WLTPD
1775 AD - Future Tech
1779 AD - Landing at AC

A few comments:

I gave away a ton of science. I stopped for a while after industrialization, but was on the verge of falling from a tech every 2 turns after Machine Tools, so I figured what the heck and kept on giving. It made a noticeable difference (I was at 100% science no taxmen, and was able to fall back down to 90% science a couple of turns later). The result was that the English and Aztecs were building spaceship parts in the 1600s.

Great neighbours. I was allied with all of them for a while, and even when the French declared war on me the only thing they did was kill a caravan (this caused the other four allies to declare war on them, which kept them busy).

I found that a lot of the later types of Freight which I could have built didn't have a demand anywhere, so I got a bit lazy about trying to send them off and just built food instead. I'm sure that cost me a turn or two of quick science discoveries.

(edited because I had written Computers instead of Automobile in the log)

[This message has been edited by Tom DeMille (edited January 27, 2000).]

[Graag]

Here is my (partial) log, and then a few notes:

3650- Build Love
3450- Hut, 50 gold
3400- Build Phalanx
3350- Celts destroyed by Sioux
3250- Writing
Hut, 50 gold
3200- Build Temple
3150- Contact English, Mapmaking, Peace
3100- Hut, 50 gold
Hut, Currency
Hut, 50 gold (what a turn!)
3050- Contact Aztecs, Peace, 50 gold
3850- Contact Babylonians, Pottery, Peace
3650- Literacy
2650- Contact French, Peace, 50 gold
2600- Contact Sioux, Horseback Riding, Peace, 50 gold
Aztecs, 25 gold
2500- Aztecs, 25 gold (suckers)
English, Mysticism, 25 gold
2450- Babylonians, 25 gold
Aztecs & Sioux, war (pushed 'em too far)
2350- Build Colossus (wow)
2300- Aztecs & Sioux, Peace
Babylonians, 25 gold
2250- French & English, war
Destroyed English Warrior
2200- Destroyed 2 French Archers
2150- Destroyed 2 French Warriors (finally my Archer is vet)
English, cease fire
Babylonians, war
2050- Pop 100k
2000- Trade
1950- Build Library
1900- Destroy Babylonian Warrior
1800- Destroy Aztec Chariot
1750- Build Caravan, Gems
Contact Russians, Feudalism, Warrior Code, Peace, 50 gold
Babylonians, Peace, 25 gold
Aztecs, Peace
1650- Build Caravan, Hides
1550- Philosophy, The Republic, Revolt
1500- English, Peace, 50 gold
1450- In Republic
Build Caravan, Hides
1400- WLTSD
1300- French sneak attack Caravan on hill, Caravan survives
1200- WLTSD ends, size 7
1050- Mathematics
950- Babylonians, Seafearing
925- Hides Caravan, 85 gold
875- Astronomy
Hut, Iron Working
775- Silk, 86 gold
750- Build Copernicus' Observatory
650- Construction
625- Build Aquaduct
600- Russians, Chivalry
Hides, 86 gold
400- Medicine
325- Pop 300k
250- Build Shakespeare's Theatre
225- WLTSD
200- Pop 400k
175- Pop 500k
150- Pop 600k
University
125- Pop 700k
100- WLTSP ends, size 12

20- Theory Of Gravity
80- Russians, The Wheel
120- Engineering
180- Build Issac Newton's College
240- Sanitation
260- Build Swer System
WLTSD
400- Bridge Building
420- Pop 2mil
Build University
440- Babylonians, Banking, Share Maps
460- WLTSP ends, size 21
Build Caravan, Wool
480- Invention
520- Democracy, revolt
Build Marketplace
540- In Democracy
580- Gunpowder
Build Bank
620- Chemistry
Build Caravan, Coal
660- Explosives
Build Diplomat
680- Establish Embassy with French (who have a city right outside Love)
700- Economics
Build Engineers

At this point I checked this thread out, realised I wouldn't make a decent landing time so I stopped. I think I got off to a great start, but began failing bacause of unfreindly AI. I attempted to win them over with science, but ever time I tried they turned nasty again next turn, and would never sign an alliance. What did I do wrong?
Also, I stopped bothering to mention all the times I switch between war an peace with the AI's, because it changed ever 3-7 turns with most of them.

Could this be thanks to MGE? I am told that MGE AI's are a lot nastier, perhaps I should reinstall my original cov for OCC. But perhaps its just me making excuses, and the flaw is my handling of the AI, which I will now work on.

Anyway, can anyone point out flaws in my game, because I know I should have done a lot better.

Sigh, oh well, perhaps i'll do beter next time.

Graag



------------------
You should never smoke in pyjamas, you could start a fire and burn your face

[Tom DeMille]

Graag, it must be MGE. I played this on 242, and the AIs simply adored me (I had 5 allies with a Worshipful attitude for a few turns). True, I gave them a heck of a lot of science (every time I thought of it I would cycle through them and give give give), but 242 had more to do with their attitude than anything else.

[Graag]

Ok, thanks Tom, I shall reinstall the old civ2 post haste. I know it won't count but I'll play this OCC again, to see how I do.


Graag

------------------
You should never smoke in pyjamas, you could start a fire and burn your face

[Caesar the Great]

Intersting I think its worth a shot.

___
CtG

[Aurelius]

Fortnight Two: 3700: Two Whales and two Wine and Monarchy about to be established!

Perfection is far away, but not 1700's given this start! I made several errors ranging from commencing WLTCD without starting a Sewer at size 12 to early mismanagement of city resources to trading for dead end science.

1) I did build Darwin's but it was a wash in the overall AC date. I needed more freight for a one turn Apollo.

2) Had four allies! French being the most hostile. And Aztec and Sioux eternal. Dissolved alliance with the English with demand of A' Flight-later irrelevant war.


3) As our map provider did and no doubt Paul will do, I should have been a bit less stingy with science gifts-though I did give a lot away in gifts and demands.

4) Didn't matter in the game, one should never developed Combined Arms between Space Science as I could have developed Amphibious Warfare and as it turned out, the English developed AW!


5) Sold on no pollution controls but two free engineers.

6) Wish I'd developed NF instead of Flight….but this may not be correct.

7) French alliance was a nuisance in the beginning….they founded a city with overlapping resource tiles. Anyone have this problem?

8) I think there should be two accolades in this competition: One for Multi-player and one for V2.42 and less. I used V1.07.

9) Log stuff: I tried that year money thing but it is a bit tedious. I liked that folks included their wonder commencement/complete log entries.

10) I have trouble deciding whether to develop Democracy or workin' Paul's Science progression. I guess the idea is to get refrigeration fast and delay the democratic WCTPD stuff until the land is developed sufficiently.

11) Question: Is there any consistency with what sciences choices we will be given due to the same starting position? ( ie given we develop the same sciences, will we have the same choices throughout the competition or is it random? Guess hut science makes the rationale of this question more confusing!)

Usual disclaimers! Here it is:

Edited to include a Tom DeMille like Log preview:

3650 To 1950 BC Colossus
925 To 825 BC Republic Established
825 To 600 BC Size 12
550 To 425 BC Copernicus (loglapse here?!)
375 To 200 BC Shakes
225 BC to 80 AD Size 21 (from size 11 due to French war)
960 to 1040 AD Darwin's
1160 to 1380 AD Size 26 (from size 19 -terrible science progression to refrig. In 900 AD)
1700 to 1752 AD Apollo (Don't think Darwin helped me much !)
1710 Space Flight
1800 to 1815 Launch to AC

Log edited to include Space advance:

3650-0-Founded Ottawa-Established Monarchy
3600-2-Researching Writing
3450-8-Hut barb/run away from legion
3350-12-Something destroyed by Souix-First Contact/Russians-Peace/Ignored tribute
3250-17-Writing to Currency-Size 2
2950-34-Currency to Trade
2850-38-Hut none hut horse
2750-43-Contact/English-Peace/Tributed Mapmaking-Size 3
2600-55-Hut Trade
2500-63-Construction to Mysticism
3450-67-Russians Destroyed by English-Hut barb/destroyed the little horsy
2350-75-Contact/Souix-Peace/Traded for Horseback and pottery/Refused Alliance
2250-83-Contact/Aztec-Peace/gifted them Construction
1950-108-Colossus to library-Size 4 around here
1750-125-Gave Construction to English and then Writing for Alliance/Gifted 100 gd.-Allied with Souix/gifted 75
1700-206-Library to caravan
1600-50-Caravan to caravan
1450-68-Literacy to Philosophy
1200-50-Alliance formed with Aztec
1150-----3rd caravan to Coliseum
1100-62-Philosophy to Republic to Medicine
975-80-Traded for warrior code with English/exchanged maps-Traded for Wheel with Souix/exchanged maps
925-24-Revolting
900-Coliseum to marketplace
825-24-Est. Republic-Commencing WLTCD
775-12-Gave Aztecs Literacy/gifted 50 gd
750-21-Marketplace to Temple
700-361-Gave Philosophy to English for sympathy and traded for Engineering with Souix/gifted 200! Switched to Aqueduct Freight for 200 to York
675-393-Aqueduct to Temple
650-239-Temple Medicine Contact/French-demanded money tribute/War
600-237-Took some juggling but we got size 12 and now the tax rate is 0/80/20 working hard for Mathematics and Astronomy
550-228-Mathematics to Astronomy-70/10/20
525-487-Trade/Copper to London for 200+gd 0/80/20
500-503-Traded maps with Aztecs and gifted for 25
450-725-Traded for Iron working and refused to war with Aztecs (they just declared war with each other) Traded maps-Hut Polytheism-Trade Sioux gifted us for 100gd
425-472-Copernicus to City Walls-Trade/gems Nottingham for 364 10/70/20
400-267-Banking to Sanitation-Changing to Bank 50/40/10
375-335-Bank to Shakes
350-399-40/50/10
250-613-Sanitation to Sea Faring (want to grow before University) Sold Temple
225-54-Sold Coliseum Commencing WLTCD 10/70/20
200-261-Shakespeare's Theatre to Sewer System-Just lost none archer to French Chariot Traded for Feudalism/gifted 200 from Sioux-Size 11!
125-16-Seafaring to Invention-Sewer System to harbor-Made Alliance with French by giving them Construction and Mathematics/gifted 50gd
50-64-Two turns ago, finished Harbor to City Wall (Sioux have Chivalry)
25-46-Invention to University
…………

1AD42-City Wall to improvement
40-150-Univercity to Theory of Gravity-Changing to University-Traded for Mono with Aztecs/gifted 100-Traded Maps with English/gifted 200
60-139-University to Caravan
80-154- Size 21 (end WLTCD)
100-241-Theory of Gravity to Economics Trade for Chivalry with Sioux gifted 200 French have attitude-Alliance dissolved. The are overlapping Ottawa's Resources
160-252-Chemistry to Gunpowder
180-312-Stock Exchange to diplomat
220-432-Gunpowder to Chemistry-diplomat to caravan
280-592-Chemistry to Explosives-Caravan (26shields)
300-540-Bribed Barb Big Horsy First Engineer to Issacs
400-855-Democracy to Bridge Building (?) -revolting
460-91-Est. Democracy Used two caravans to complete Issacs.
480-----ISSAC's to Engineer
500-149-Bridgbuilding to Leadership
520------2nd Engineer-Camels
540-227-Leadership to Mellurgy
560-220-Gave Astronomy to Aztecs/gifted 75
580-155-Metallurgy to Conscription
620-595-Conscription to Theology(two deadend choices) Trade with London/Coal/357
660-783-Theology to Navigation Had to Bribe another Big Horsy
680-736-Formed alliance with French/gave conscription/gifted 25gd
700-746-Navigation to Physics
740-677-Physics to Atomic Theory
780-605-Atomic Theory to Magnetism-Major Barbarian uprising
820-523-Magnetism to Electricity
840-758-Gems for 225
860-798-Electricity to Refrigeration
900-641-Refrigeration to Steam
920-774-Killed Barb leader
940-757-Steam to Railroad
960-897-Gave Aztec University/gifted 100 Gave Sioux Conscription/gifted 75 Commencing Darwins
1000-1102-Railroad to Industrialization-100/0/0
1020-14-10/90/0
1040-27-Darwins to supermarket-Industrialization to Tactics to Corporation
1080-----Corporation to Steel Supermarket (way too late! Lot of 3 turn science.)
1140-----Steel to Electronics
1160-190-Commencing WLTPD
1200-150-Electronics to Refining
1260-112-Refining to Combustion
1280-103-Factory to Hydro
1320-157-Combustion to Automobile
1380-97-Automobile to Mass Production-Hydro to Superhighway(Size 26 was reached at the right time from 19 after two engineers reduced by two)
1440-84-Mass Production to Machine tools
1460-----Superhighway to Coastal Fortress
1480-142-Machine Tools to Mobile Warfare
1500-159-Coastal Fortress to Improvement
1510-206-Mobile to Miniaturization
1530-288-Miniaturization to Computers
1540------Offshore Platform to Improvement
1550-67-Computer to Robotics
1560-177-Research Lab to Freight
1570-100-Robotics to Flight Bribed a camel
1590-202-Flight to NF (only non redundant science) (Trade units=12) Finally remembered to sell Sewer
1610-290-NF to Radio
1630-258-Radio to Advance Flight Trade with 338 gd
1660-969-Advance Flight to Rocketry-Got greedy and lost 10 years. (Trade units=18-2 for trade)
1680-907-Rocketry to NP (only relevant science)
1700-------NP to Space-Manufacturing Plant
1710 ? Space Flight to Plastics
1720-Finished terraforming Grass to woods (78shields railroad will fix that) 382 and 135 gd trade
1752-914-Plastics to Laser Apollo Built (82 shields only one non shield tile of pollution-15 Trade units/Dip/rifleman/none horsy/settler and two engineers)
1762-1726-Laser to Combined
1770-2202-Combined Arms to Super-Cancelled Alliance with English on Demand for Advance Flight
1778-2722-Super to Fusion
1786-1075-Fusion to Amphibious 100/0/0 (ship: 15 0 0 1 1 0) Still allied with Aztec and French
1800-410 Launched AC 1815 War with the English
1801-747-Just let the English steal Fusion! Damn….but no other space ships-First tank
1802-178-Bribed two Aztec Ironclads
1815 AC Arrival Brian Mulruny the Cruel

But the time I got to AC, The English had knocked the Sioux for silly. Glad I didn't give them Advanced Flight! No rival space ships! 1779 is awesome! (Don't know how I could shave more than 7 or 8 turns off…but 20ish turns?! Tom Got Automobile 860AD! Damn! My 1380 Auto date….) What a position!

Au-next log is going to be minimal!

[This message has been edited by Aurelius (edited January 27, 2000).]

[redbaron]

Interesting game. My best ever result, but still thrashed by you guys. (I hate to think when Paul will get to AC).
Despite having Alliances with most of the other civs on the landmass, I didn't get much in the way of gifts. (This was on 2.42)
Still they didn't bother me much, except the French towards the end, but by then I'd ringed the city with fortified Alpines and their cvalry just beat themselves up. Didn't even have any overlapping cities from them.

3700 BC Monarchy
3650 BC Penge founded
3450 BC Warriors
3400 BC Writing
3200 BC Barb Legion (hut)
3150 BC Horsemen killed
3100 BC Pottery
2750 BC Currency
2700 BC Contact with French (Neutral)
Monarchy to French
Treaty with French
2400 BC Trade
2350 BC Trade to French
2050 BC Colossus
2000 BC Mysticism
1950 BC Mysticism to French
Alliance with French
50 Gold from French
1850 BC Granary
1700 BC Construction
1600 BC Beads Caravan
1500 BC Warriors
1400 BC Contact with Babylonians (uncoperative)
Exchange Trade for Map Making with Babylonians
Treaty with Babylonians
Construction to Babylonians
Alliance with Babylonians
150 gold from Babylonians
Map Making to French
Library
1350 BC Literacy
1300 BC Beads Route to Rheims 84 gold
Share maps with French
Share maps with Babylonians
Copper Caravan
1250 BC Philosophy
Mathematics
1100 BC Marketplace
1000 BC Exchange Philosophy for Seafaring with French
200 Gold from French
250 Gold from Babylonians
975 BC Hides Caravan
Republic
900 BC Temple
825 BC Contact with English (Receptive)
Exchange Literacy for Wheel with English
Exchange Trade for Horseback Riding with English
Alliance with English
200 Gold from English
Republic established
Hides Route to Rheims 96 Gold
Harbour
WLTSD Pop 4
800 BC Copper Route to Orleans 144 Gold
Astronomy
775 BC Colosseum
700 BC Aqueduct
675 BC Contact with Aztecs (Uncoperative)
100 Gold to Aztecs
Treaty with Aztecs
Engineering
650 BC 50 Gold from French
Share maps with English
625 BC Gems Caravan
575 BC WLTSD Cancelled Pop 12
550 BC 100 Gold from Babylonians
25 Gold from English
525 BC Food Caravan
WLTSD (reduce luxuries to 10%)
500 BC WLTSD ends
475 BC Food Caravan
450 BC Sanitation
425 BC Food Caravan
350 BC Food Caravan
300 BC University
275 BC Exchange Sanitation for Banking with French
200 Gold from French
225 BC Sewer System
200 BC Gems Route to Canterbury 410 Gold
Theory of Gravity
150 BC Food Caravan
WLTSD Pop 12
Copernicus
125 BC WLTSD ends Pop 13
100 BC Food Caravan
Economics
50 BC Food Caravan
1 AD Invention
20 AD Food Caravan
40 AD 50 Gold from English
60 AD Food Caravan
80 AD Democracy
Revolution
100 AD Food Caravan
120 AD Democracy
160 AD Barb Leader 150 Gold
Sell Colosseum
Shakespeare
180 AD WLTPD Pop 14
Sell Temple
Exchange Invention for Iron Working with French
Exchange Astronomy for Warrior Code with French
100 Gold from French
200 AD Chemistry
University
260 AD Navigation
300 AD WLTPD ends Pop 20
320 AD Gunpowder
340 AD Bank
380 AD Metallurgy
420 AD Spice Caravan
440 AD Exhange Navigation for Bridge Building with French
Alliance with French ends
Food Caravan
Explosives
500 AD Food Caravan
Conscription
540 AD Spice Route to Rheims 180 Gold
Food Caravan
Physics
580 AD Food Caravan
600 AD Feudalism
620 AD Food Caravan
660 AD Food Caravan
Magnetism
700 AD Food Caravan
Newton
Steam Engine
760 AD Alliance with Babylonians ends
Stock Exchange
Electricity
800 AD Engineers
Chivalry
840 AD Engineers
Refrigeration
880 AD Railroad
940 AD Supermarket
Leadership
960 AD WLTPD Pop 18
1000 AD Food Caravan
Industrialisation
1060 AD Food Caravan
Corporation
1100 AD Sell Sewer
Food Freight
WLTPD ends Pop 24
1120 AD Refining
1140 AD Food Freight
1180 AD Barb Crusaders land
Steel
Food Freight
1220 AD Food Freight
1240 AD Sell Aqueduct
Combustion
1260 AD Darwin
Automobile
Electronics
1300 AD Superhighway
Atomic Theory
1340 AD Mass Production
1360 AD Factory
Pollution starts
1380 AD Tactics
1420 AD Machine Tools
1440 AD Hydro Plant
1500 AD Mass Transit
Miniaturisation
1520 AD Computers
1530 AD Research Lab
1540 AD Robotics
1560 AD Offshore Platform
Flight
1580 AD Nuclear Fission
1600 AD Manufacturing Plant
Radio
Wool Freight
1620 AD Food Freight
1630 AD War with French
Barracks
Advanced Flight
1640 AD Wool Freight destroyed
Alpine Troops
1650 AD Alpine Troops
1660 AD Alpine Troops
1670 AD Alliance with Aztecs
200 Gold from Aztecs
Rocketry
Alpine Troops
1680 AD Alpine Troops
1690 AD Alpine Troops
Nuclear Power
1700 AD Alpine Troops
1710 AD Alpine Troops
1720 AD Food Freight
Space Flight
1750 AD Plastics
1756 AD Apollo
Laser
1762 AD Combined Arms
Treaty with French
1768 AD Superconductor
1774 AD Fusion Power
1776 AD Sell Granary
Tax Rate 100%, 4 Einsteins
1782 AD Sell Research Lab
1784 AD Sell University
1786 AD Sell Library
15 Structurals
1798 AD Alliance with Aztecs ends
1810 AD 6 Components
1816 AD Disband Warriors
1818 AD Launch ETA 1833
1825 AD French sneak attack
1833 AD Alpha Centauri.

[Tom DeMille]

Aurelius, I too had a French city built with 3 overlaping production squares. Luckily I noticed early enough that I put those squares into production before the French city stole them. From what I understand, an ally cannot take a square from you even when he has a unit stationed on it. I actually filled those squares with caravans and my remaining NONE units just to be on the safe side.

I happily gave the AI advanced flight, even space flight . The aztecs built around 3 structurals and the English 2. It kept them allied with me (they demanded the tech), which allowed me to keep building my spaceship without having to worry about military units. And I figured that they just weren't well enough developed (no city above size 12) to outpace my 1 a turn spaceship part building.

Redbaron, I always gave a science away before asking for a gift. This seemed to work well. Most of the AI were Worshipful for quite a bit of the game.

[Aurelius]

Hey Tom,

I edited my log to include a log preview like your's. Man, I screwed up by not giving away enough science so that I had to develop Seafaring and Bridge Building and some other advances....many years lost in that time!

Also the late year refrigeration date reveals a bad Science progression.

I caught the French too! Whew! But I was so mad I cancelled the alliance rather than give away science....but later I begged forgiveness and we were allies again....I have a temper when I play this game !

I never met the Babylonians! They were around though. I think I managed my allies poorly as I just request gifts early without giving science first and sharing maps early. You did get a lot more gifts!

Nice game and log....I'll keep at it.

AU

[Smash]

This was a strange game for me.Numerous times techs weren't offered and my research rate changed several times when it should not have.I've often thought how nice it would be to have a library during Collosus construction and since writing is early in this game I'd thought I'd try it.

Mila took Brian by the hand and led him unto Eden which he renamed Ottawa.Little did they know the OCC frustrations that were to come:

3650BC-govt-Monarchy-Ottawa
3450-warrior
3350-Writing
3300-hut-archer
3200-hut-Horseback Riding
3150-contact French-trade Mason for Pott-peace
3000-hut-50 gold
2950-hut-barbs-contact Aztecs-peace
2900-chariot..KIA
2850-library-start Collossus
2650-Currency...Trade not offered-hut-archer-hut-Literacy
2500-contact English trade Pott for Map-alliance-share maps-50 gold-trade Aztecs Lit for Myst tribute 50 gold
2300-Construction
2150-gift Lit to English and French-Writing to Aztecs
1800-hut-trade!
1750-finish Collossus
1700-Philosophy-Repub..math not offered-revolt
1650-govt-Repub
1600-temple-English gift 50
1550-start "we love" size 4
1350-end size 7
1300-gift Construct to English-50 gold-trade Aztecs Trade for Warrior Code-share maps
1200-Seafaring
1150-hides caravan
975-gems caravan
925-Math
825-colliseum
750-Astronomy..Med not offered-contact Babs-gift trade-50 gold
725-harbor
675-start "we love" size 7
650-aquaduct-start Cope's-gift repub to English-100 gold
600-trade Babs Construct for Banking-hides arrives in Nottingham 140 gold
575-The Wheel
550-end "we love" 12 sell colliseum
500-Babs gift 50-English cancel alliance-trade Aztecs Monarchy for Iron Working
475-French settler in city radius-gems arrive in Teotihuacan 400
450-Medicine-finish Cope's-start Shake's
425-"escorting French settler away-Babas gift 50
375-French are close Lyons 62/44
350-Engineering-trade French Seafaring for University..demand they withdraw..war-Babs gift 100
325-French settler,warrior terminated
250-Sanitation-peace with French
225-Bab caravan arrives from nineveh +8
150-sell temple-lux>0
125-Gravity-finish Shake's
100-English demand 100..war..English horseman terminated
50-start "we love"-Babs gift 75
25-sewer-start Ike's-contact Russians..war..Russian horseman terminated
---------------------------------------------
AD1-Invention
20-Bab caravan arrives..new route +10
100-Democracy-gift Sanitation to Babs
140-end "we love" 21-revolt-gift 50 gold to hostile French
200-gift Invention to Babs
220-govt-Democracy-gift Invention to English-peace
240-babs offer 300 to attack England-refused-French sneak attack exploring horse...Mr Ed survives by a sliver of red-gift Iron to Babs
260-Economics
320-Sir ikes finished
340-Gunpowder-French dip terminated
360-French horse terminated
380-chemistry-build university-cease fire with Russians-trade Babs Gunpowder for Navigation-ask for gift..alliance dissolved
420-Explosives
440-gems caravan
460-Metallurgy
480-engineer-trade Russians Gunpowder for Bridgebuilding..no alliance-gift gunpowder to French-Invention to Aztecs-Navigation to English
500-Physics
520-musketeer-English buzzing all around
540-Magnetism
560-engineer
580-Electricity..Refrig not offered
620-Steam Engine-build bank
660-Refrigeration
700-Railroad-supermarket-start Darwin's-no Auto pre reqs offered
740-Conscription-science goes from 701 to 642..trade routes unchanged..this has been a strange game-French are screwing me by occupying squares under ceasefire..I hate this game sometimes..fortunately i havn't started "we love" or it would have been ended by the French
780-Industrialization-sign alliance with French against Aztecs
800-start "we love"
840-Steel-only Feudal,Atomic and Commie offered-gift RR to french English and Aztecs-peace with Aztecs-none have Feudal or won't trade at least-city covered with French allies inhibiting engineers..they will pay
880-English declare war
900-Feudalism-end "we love" 24-sell sewer-gems arrive in York 80 gold..geez
920-sell aquaduct
940-The Corporation-offered Chiv,Atomic and Poly
980-Chivalry
1020-refining-no auto pre reqs offered
1040-Darwin's-Electronics-Combustion
1060-Automobile
1100-research box changes-should have had Mass Prod
1120-Mass Prod-offered Atomic poly and recycling-trade Russians Physics for Poly
1140-super highway
1160-Leadership-French pay 250 to declare war on English
1200-Tactics
1240-research changes again..should have had Machine Tools
1260-Machine Tools-Mini not offered-hydro plant
1280-spice freight-gift physics to English-ceasefire-gift RR to Aztecs-cease fire
1300-Mobile Warfare-wool freight
1320-food freight
1340-Miniaturization
1380-Computers-spice arrives in Paris 540
1400-Robotics-research lab
1420-French cancel alliance
1440-Flight-radio not offered-manufacturing plant-wool arrives in Newcastle 168
1480-Atomic Theory-Aztecs steal Sanitation-no war
1500-howitzer
1510-Radio-food freight
1520-food freight-English break cease fire..Mr howie seeks repercussions against English chariot
1530-Advanced Flight-armor-start wonder
1550-Rocketry-Space Flight not offered
1560-trade Russians Conscript for Commie
1580-Space Flight
1590-Apollo
1610-Plastics-no pre reqs offered-Babs want alliance-signed-50 gold
1640-Espionage
1670-Nuclear Fission
1690-Babs gift 50
1700-Nuclear power-French sneak attack
1730-The Laser-Super conductor not offered
1740-15 structs
1752-Amphibious Warfare
1754-Babs gift 100
1760-Super conductor
1764-6 comps-Babs gift 50-peace with French
1778-Fusion Power-sell research lab
1780-3 mods-launch
81-walls
82-barracks
83-coastal fort
84-armor
85-howitzer
86-armor-French elephant sneak attacks tank...hehehe
89-Manhattan Project
91-nuclear missile-nuke Paris
93-English sneak attack-nuclear missile-nuke Newcastle
94-armor
1795-arrival AC


A frustrating game with the tech choices and science changes.I must have lost a million turns.I never did build a stock exchange

[Caesar the Great]

I'll be posting my log later today... after I play the map.

------------------
Its normal to be weird here and weird to be normal~ Brain

___
CtG

[Paul]

I liked Tom's top ten highlights, so here are my highlights:

2300 BC Colossus
1450 BC Gov: Republic
725 BC Copernicus
450 BC Shakespeare
200 BC Size 21
140 AD Isaac Newton
260 AD Refrigeration
640 AD Darwin, Automobile
920 AD Computers
1280 AD Apollo
1645 AD Arrival on AC

Aurelius, I can't find the post with my tech path right away, but I think I forgot to mention Democracy in that. I usually try to get it after Gravity. The ability to set science at 90 or 100% can help a lot, especially in this game. I also do a WLTPD after Dem if I can still get some growth from it, but that wasn't possible in this game.

Here's my log starting from the point where Tom saved the game:

3650 BC Gov: Monarchy
Washington
3500 BC Hut: Barbarian Horsemen -> Chariot kills Barb Horse -> Veteran
3450 BC Warrior
3400 BC French: trade Pottery, Writing; give Code of Laws; alliance; no gifts
3250 BC Warrior
Size 2; Working two Whales; research 8 turns
3200 BC Babylonians destroyed by Barbarians
3050 BC Currency
2950 BC Hut: Horsemen
English: trade Map Making; give Pottery, Masonry; peace (they refuse alliance); share maps
French: give Map Making; share maps
2900 BC Japanese destroyed by Aztecs
2800 BC Hut: Barbarian Horsemen
French: gift 25 gold
English: no tribute
Size 3; Working mined wine; research 8 turns; 168 gold
2750 BC Barb Horse kills my Horse
2650 BC Aztecs: give Monarchy, Masonry; peace (they refuse alliance); tribute 100 gold
2550 BC Aztecs: give Map Making
English: tribute 25 gold
French: no gift
2500 BC Trade
Aztecs: share maps
2450 BC French: gift 50 gold
Aztecs, English refuse alliance
2400 BC French: gift 50 gold
2350 BC English: trade Mysticism
French: gift 50 gold
2300 BC Colossus; research 8 turns
2250 BC French: gift 50 gold
Aztecs: tribute 25 gold
English: tribute 25 gold
2200 BC Build Gems Caravan
2150 BC French: no gift
Aztecs: tribute 25 gold
English: no tribute
2100 BC Build Beads Caravan
2000 BC Construction
French: give Trade, Construction, Mysticism; share maps; no gift
Aztecs: share maps
English: refuse to share maps
1950 BC French: gift 100 gold
1900 BC Build Coal Caravan
1850 BC French: gift 50 gold
Aztecs: trade Literacy; tribute 50 gold
English: tribute 50 gold
1800 BC Library
Size 4; working mined wine; research 6 turns; 36 gold
1650 BC Hut: Horsemen
Aztecs: tribute 50 gold; nothing from others
1600 BC Marketplace
Republic, revolution
1550 BC Aztecs: tribute 50 gold; nothing from others
1500 BC Temple
1450 BC Gov: Republic; tax-sci-lux 20-60-20; research 7 turns
Disband two Warriors
Start WLTCD, size 4
1350 BC Gems (demanded) to Tlatelolco: 201 gold; route +4
1300 BC Colosseum
Seafaring
English: trade Mathematics
Barb Leader: 150 gold
1250 BC Barb Archer kills Chariot
1200 BC Aqueduct
Coal (not demanded) to Paris: 104 gold; route +6
1150 BC Astronomy
1100 BC Harbor
1050 BC Beads (demanded) to Tenochtitlan: 203 gold; route +7
1000 BC Build Copper Caravan
Philosophy, Medicine
Hut: University
End WLTCD, size 12; tax-sci-lux 20-70-10; research 4 turns
900 BC Banking
Hut: 50 gold
French, Aztecs: share maps
800 BC Theory of Gravity
725 BC Copernicus' Observatory; tax-sci-lux 10-80-10; research 3 turns
Horseback Riding
650 BC Wheel
French: trade Navigation; gift 100 gold
Aztecs: trade Economics; share maps
English: share maps
600 BC French: gift 50 gold
575 BC French: gift 50 gold
550 BC Engineering
Celts: trade Iron Working, Warrior Code; peace; they refuse alliance; share maps
French: gift 50 gold
525 BC French: gift 50 gold
475 BC Sold Colosseum
450 BC Shakespeare's Theatre
Sanitation
Sold Temple
Copper (demanded) to Tenochtitlan: 172 gold; route +8
Start WLTCD, size 12
400 BC Sewer System
Celts: give all science except Gravity; alliance; share maps; no gift
French: give all science except Gravity; share maps; gift 100 gold
Aztecs: give all science except Gravity; share maps; they refuse alliance
English: war because I won't pay them 50 gold
350 BC Invention
English: peace; give all science except Gravity; share maps; they refuse alliance
325 BC Build University
275 BC Build Gems Caravan
Sioux: peace; they refuse alliance
250 BC Democracy
Sioux: give all science except Gravity; share maps
French: gift 50 gold
200 BC Hut: 50 gold
End WLTCD, size 21
175 BC Bank
Chemistry
Revolution
Aztecs, English, Sioux: no tribute
125 BC Gov: Democracy
75 BC Gunpowder
25 BC Bridge Building
1 AD Give away all science to all
20 AD Explosives
French: trade Physics
80 AD Metallurgy
140 AD Isaac Newton's College
Magnetism
180 AD Build Spice Caravan
Electricity
Gems (not demanded) to Tlatelolco: 88 gold
French: gift Polytheism
220 AD Build Copper Caravan
Steam Engine
260 AD Engineers
Refrigeration
300 AD Engineers
Conscription
French: gift 100 gold
340 AD Stock Exchange
Railroad
380 AD Supermarket
Industrialization
420 AD Engineers
Feudalism
French: gift 100 gold
460 AD Corporation
480 AD Build Wool Freight
French: gift 50 gold
500 AD Steel
Spice (demanded) to Teotihuacan: 212 gold; route +12
540 AD Refining
Copper (not demanded) to Teotihuacan: 78 gold; route +12
580 AD Electronics
600 AD Celts: gift 50 gold
French: gift 50 gold
620 AD Combustion
Celts: 250 gold for war on Sioux
640 AD Darwin's Voyage: Automobile, Mass Production
Start WLTPD, size 18
660 AD Superhighways
Chivalry
680 AD Disband Engineers
French: gift 100 gold
700 AD Leadership
French: gift 50 gold
740 AD Factory
Tactics
French: gift 50 gold
760 AD French: gift 50 gold
780 AD Machine Tools
End WLTPD, size 24
Sold Sewer System
Wool Freight (not demanded) to Teotihuacan: 212 gold
800 AD Power Plant
820 AD Mobile Warfare
840 AD Sold Aqueduct
860 AD Miniaturization
880 AD Offshore Platform
920 AD Computers
French: cancel alliance
940 AD Research Lab
960 AD Robotics
1000 AD Manufacturing Plant
Flight
1060 AD Atomic Theory
1100 AD Radio
1140 AD Advanced Flight
1180 AD Rocketry
Celts: gift 250 gold
Aztecs: trade Genetic Engineering
1220 AD Communism
1260 AD Space Flight
1280 AD Apollo Program
1320 AD Plastics
1380 AD Nuclear Fission
1440 AD Nuclear Power
1510 AD Laser
Celts: trade Monotheism
1550 AD Superconductor
1620 AD Fusion Power
1630 AD Launch
1634 AD English: sneak attack
1641 AD French: sneak attack
1645 AD Arrival on AC

[Smash]

wish I could say I am surprised.Thought 1750 was a reasonable goal.hehehe

you seem to get a fair amount of help from the ai.I'm gonna try the "give all science" plan.More early caravans also.

I have all my "white" civs customized to the Scots.Now that I think of it it wasn't the yellow coat,bearded Russian emissary it was the Celtic one.
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited January 28, 2000).]

[Aurelius]

Paul,

Awesome position and awesome result!

Concerning when to research Democracy, I suspect the decision is related to terrain and surplus food and not so easily put into a formula.

Au

Imitation is the sincerest form...