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OCC Fortnight 10 - Discussion and Logs

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  • #31
    Smash & Oldman: Thanks, that puts one important context to Paul's prescription for 2 eng's. The implication tho is that to cope with the costly degradation to 79- (even for 1 turn) one needs an adequate reserve in the coffers or of caravans/disbandable units. Any consensus so far on the minimum, say to complement Paul's recommended 9+ caravans?

    Sorry to show my rust, but can you direct me to a convenient table (or if it's not too demeaning, repeat the figures here) for the number of turns the engineer takes to transform grassland to hills (and other major changes of terrain) required during this transition period to optimise my timing.

    Oldman: Well chosen scenario, contrasting as it does with Vik's previous huge parallel land masses (which paid dividends from extra sea-based exploration). AI diplomacy being one of my weak-points, the close living with neighbours has taught valuable lessons in the nuances of AI behavior. BTW the pleasantly surprising Eskimo acquired knowledge provided one lesson - it sometimes pays to be nice to a recalcitrant neighbour.

    Looking forward to OCC11 - meantime back to the retrospective comparison games for more hands-on practice.



    • #32
      Tonic, if your engineers clean up the pollution immediately your production will not go below 80. The game processes your production before it creates any pollution, so if you clean it up in the same turn it pops up you will never lose any production.


      • #33
        4 people got knocked off? I don't feel so bad now.
        "Three word posts suck!" - me

        "...and I never will play the Wild Rover no more..." - Various


        • #34
          Stop rubbing it in.


          • #35
            Hey, I'm one of the four that got killed. I must be punishing myself by bringing it up. I haven't cived in any form in about 4 days, which is a record. What is wrong with me! I must be recovering from this OCC disaster!
            "Three word posts suck!" - me

            "...and I never will play the Wild Rover no more..." - Various


            • #36

              Originally posted by Bohlen on 06-08-2000 03:16 PM
              Hey, I'm one of the four that got killed.

              Haha loser

              I die. Lucky me.

              OK, so I'm a hippocrite.


              • #37
                Great game Oldman really enjoyed every nail biting moment .....

                Gibralta OCC - v2.42 - deity

                << Personal Best!! 1655 Landing >>

                Monarchy -3050
                Republic -1050
                Democracy AD60

                Colossus -2250
                Copernicus -525
                Shakespeare -275
                Newton 120
                Darwin 440
                Apollo 1340

                Trade#1 -1750
                Trade#2 -1550
                Trade#3 -1250

                Size 12 -775
                Size 21 -25

                Comments: Lucky start with lots of four legged units allowed no supported units for much of history - CoL from a hut gave me the magic boost into a personal record - Chose to forest one of the plains squares - with hindsight it would probably have been better to hill one of the rivers - but did I have time?

                3950 Liverpool Rock founded on best guess site
                3850 hut Non-Archer
                3800 contact Luxembourgers - gift Ceremonial Burial for alliance
                3650 hut Non-Chariot
                3600 hut - supprted Horseman, Non-Chariot
                3550 hut Non-Archer
                3500 hut Non-Horseman - I've been lucky so far...; contact Tibetans - gift Bronze for alliance
                3450 contact Seychellians - gift Bronze for alliance
                3400 hut 50g
                3300 hut Code of Laws!
                3100 Monarchy; Revolution; hut Non-Horse
                Tibettans: Map Making, Horseback Riding, Pottery + Maps
                Seychellians: Warrior Code + Maps
                Luxembourgers: Currency + Maps
                3050 MONARCHY established
                2900 Tibettans: 25g
                2800 Gold mine completed; Seychellians: 25g
                2750 contact Fijians - peace + maps; Maps all round
                2700 Liverpool Rock now size 3 can maintain celebration @ 40% luxuries
                Fijians: Writing + alliance
                Seychellians: 25g
                2600 Tibettans: 50g
                2450 Maps all round
                2400 hut 50g; Luxembourg: 25g
                2300 hut Non-Legion; Fiji & Lxembourg: 25g each
                2250 COLOSSUS - can reduce luxuries to 30%; Maps all round
                2200 Fiji: 25g; Luxembourg: Iron Working
                2100 TRADE; Fiji: 25g; Seychelles: 50g
                2000 hut Non-Chariot; Seychelles: 25g
                1900 Fiji: 50g; Seychelles: 25g
                1750 DYE to LUXEMBOURG: 64g
                1700 Literacy; Tibet: 50g; Luxembourg: 25g
                1600 Tibet & Luxembourg: 25g each
                1550 COPPER to LUXEMBOURG: 32g - luxuries reduced to 20%
                1500 Fiji: 50g; Luxembourg: 25g
                1400 100g + Masonry from allies
                1300 25g
                1250 BEADS to PASSARGADAE: 84g
                1200 The Republic; Revolution; hut Seafaring; 25g from allies
                1100 Temple; contact Eskimo peace for 100g ouch!! 125g from other allies
                1050 REPUBLIC established; CONSTRUCTION, The Wheel, Mysticism, Mathematics
                1000 WLCD starts @ 3
                0925 Hides to Nikolski: 96g
                0900 Colosseum
                0850 Aqueduct (size 9)
                0800 Philosophy -> Astronomy
                0775 Harbour; WLCD stops @ 12
                0750 allies: 275g + Bridge Building
                0675 Gold to Umnak Island: 432g
                0650 allies: 100g
                0550 allies: 100g
                0525 COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY
                0450 allies: 225g
                0325 allies: 400g
                0300 SANITATION
                0275 SHAKESPEARE'S THEATRE; sell Colosseum
                0250 WLCD starts @ 12; allies: 400g
                0225 Sewage System
                0200 Gift of 200g from Luxembourg (unsolicited)
                0175 University built
                0150 allies: 300g
                0075 Invention
                0025 WLCD stops @ 21; allies: 25g
                AD01 Democracy; Revolution
                0020 Bank
                0060 DEMOCRACY established (at last!!); allies: 250g
                0100 Theory of Gravity
                0120 ISAAC NEWTON'S COLLEGE; allies: 325g + Feudalism
                0140 Salt to Veii; 412g; contact Jamaicans: peace + Polytheism (oh goody)
                0160 Gunpowder; 100g gift from Seychelles (unsolicited); Beads to Veii: 206g
                0180 Magnetism; allies: 250g
                0220 Metalurgy; Chemistry from Luxembourg
                0260 Electricity; allies: 150g
                0300 REFRIGERATION - Receptive Ally refused to share maps!
                0340 Supermarket; Explosives; allies: 375g
                0380 Steam Engine
                0420 Railroad; allies: 475g
                0440 DARWIN'S VOYAGE -> Economics, Industrialisation; WLPD starts @ 19
                0500 WLPD stops @ 22 (food deficit)
                0520 Salt to Veii: 288g; Beads to Veii: 144g; allies: 150g
                0580 Combustion
                0600 allies: 250g
                0640 Steel
                0700 AUTOMOBILE; allies: 375g
                0720 Superhighways
                0740 Conscription
                0760 complete RR to Luxembourg; Oil & Beads to Luxembourg: 146g each (but trade route bonus now 3 * 30 per turn)
                0780 Mass Production; Seychelles donate 200g
                0820 Electronics; Gold to Suza: 362g
                0840 allies: 50g + Chivalry
                0880 Leadership
                0920 Tactics; allies: 300g
                0960 Machine Tools
                1000 Miniaturisation
                1020 Barbarian invasion - Southern choke exterminated - fear in city!
                1040 Computers
                1060 Research Laboratory
                1080 Mobile Warfare; Gold to Suza: 372g
                1120 Robotics
                1160 Flight
                1200 Radio; Manufacturing Plant
                1240 Advanced Flight
                1280 Rocketry
                1320 Space Flight
                1340 APOLLO PROGRAMME
                1360 Structural#1; Plastics
                1400 Component#2; Atomic Theory
                1440 Sturctural#3; Nuclear Fission
                1480 Sturctural#5; Nuclear Power
                1510 Structural#7; The Laser
                1520 Diplo foils Seychelleon Espionage!
                1540 Structural#10; Superconductor
                1560 Module#2; Fusion Power
                1600 13:1,1:1,1,1; Communism
                1620 15:1,1:1,1,1 - LAUNCH 1656 expected
                1622 Guerilla Warfare
                1627 Sneak attack by Luxembourg - bounces off vet Armour & vet Mech Inf
                1640 Luxembourg destroyed by repeated Water Poisonings and Stealth Fighter raids
                1644 Susa goes the same way
                1655 Landing AC

                **Green Ink** Well done Tom, I simply could not match your late research rate **/Green Ink **

                Scouse Git[1]

                "CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
                [This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited June 28, 2000).]
                "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
                "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit


                • #38
                  oops!! My mind wasn't with me this game. I got off to a slow start, partly because the Seychillion destroyed the Luxembourgers very early and were agressive towards me initially, partly because I got 1 total unit from the huts, and that contributed to the fact that I just couldn't find anything. throw in that I twice narrowly avoided disorder early on for lack of units in the city and then forgetting to grow once size 4 and happiness under control. Finally, I was happily trading with the eskimos but forgot to make contact with them so when they arrived at my doorsteps, they walked right into my city the one turn i had sent my horsie out barb leader chasing, game over... I reloaded that one turn and played out the string for a mediocre (for this game anyway) 1833 landing, albeit a PR for me, even if it doesn't count. I'm still not getting the end game techs in the right order. My first OCC game i discovered fusion power 25 turns after space flight, and since then have had 1 at 27, and most closer to 10-15. Thats plenty of room for improvement there.

                  diety, 2.42
                  AC: died -175 BC (1833)
                  monarchy: -3050
                  republic: -425
                  democracy: -- (460)

                  colossus: -1750
                  copes: --- (60)
                  shakes: --- (320)
                  ikes: --- (760)
                  darwins: --- (1280)
                  apollo: --- (1770)

                  trade: -425, -425, -400

                  size 12: --- (-100)
                  size 21: --- (540)

                  -4000 hmm, gold and whale, non shielded grassland in one choice, ocean in the other - looking for the other specials
                  -3950 rivered forest, think i may drop anchor now and hope later, New London founded
                  -3900 looks good, found a whale, can't see the other space
                  -3550 hut, code of laws, darn had almost finished researching that, warrior
                  -3500 o right, don't lose beakers like in Civ I (kewl, code of laws )
                  -3250 hut, NON horseman, someone's nearby (stunting growth for monarchy rush)
                  -3150 hut, barb horseman (aw, no vet for victory, and he's in the red)
                  -3100 just my luck, Luxembourg killed by Seychellion, any restarts?
                  -3050 Monarchy, revolt, Monarchy founded, stunting colossus for size 3
                  -2850 oops, forgot everyone is out exploring, holding on the verge of 3
                  -2700 grumble, Sey's land on my forest, growing next turn
                  -2500 looks like i found luxembourg, lots of roads, no one home
                  -2400 Writing
                  -1800 Currency, hey - this looks like a _very_ small actual world map, yep, that was luxembourg's ruins
                  -1750 Colossus
                  -1700 size 4, WLTKD
                  -1550 heh, found Sey city on madagaskar by ending turn on its coal
                  -1400 Trade, Sey (Masonry, Mapmaking, Iron Working, Alliance)
                  -975 Literacy, think I'm building a trireme next, i can't find anyone on my continent
                  -775 Construction
                  -750 Sey (Mystisism)
                  -700 hut, mathmatics
                  -650 hey, a road and irrigation!
                  -625 peace (tibet)
                  -500 Republic, revolt
                  -475 REPUBLIC founded peace, alliance with fiji (100 gp)
                  -425 hides, beads (undemanded) to Umnak Island - got the caravans backwards... hides and beads to the one demanding gold, gold to the one demanding beads
                  -400 Philosophy, Astronomy, gold (undemanded) to Gyantse
                  -375 temple
                  -325 marketplace, (wheel, horseback riding, pottery, warrior code) fiji, 200 gp (sey), cancel WL (7)
                  -275 aquaduct
                  -225 colosseum, WL
                  -200 fend off barb attack, chase barb leader with lone city unit (FATAL ERROR)
                  -175 Eskimos land and walk into undefended New London (um, reload?)
                  never did work through this one properly, even discovered I only had a 70 production post robotics, and scrambled to get it up (overcompensated to avoid famine to 87, and lost 2 planned citizens in the process). Had more diplomacy problems than usual too. I couldn't get AI above enthusiastic, even when the emissary was listed at worshipful, and they quickly fell to uncooperative within a few turns so never could ask for many gifts. I even had a worshipful emmisary dissolve the alliance because i asked for a gift...

                  *looks down at his signature* yep, still applies

                  April Cantor: Sire, in order to expand further we must first gain favor of the King

                  SCG: darn, I've never really got the hang of that tribute thing, guess it will be a long time until i make prince

                  *goes off and starts gifting gold and techs*
                  Insert witty phrase here


                  • #39
                    OCC #10

                    := "It's a small world after all, it's a small world after all, it's a small world after all, it's a small, small world!" :=

                    What is there to say? The key to victory was quick contact with the 3 civs on our continent, so we could ally with all of them, and maintaining a spotless reputation. The start was great as we got both Writing and Code of Laws from the Luxembourgers. A good start can win quite a few turns in OCC . Later on, we could trade with the overseas tribes for a couple of more techs than usual in MGE (no Feudalism though).

                    ================================================== ==============
                    AC: 1376

                    Monarchy: -
                    Republic: -2050
                    Democracy: -225

                    Colossus: -1650
                    Copernicus: -725
                    Shakespeare: -400
                    Newton: 80
                    Darwin: 400
                    Apollo: 940

                    Trade routes: -1100, -925, -775

                    Size 12: -325
                    Size 21: -100 (size 25 in AD 1)
                    Size 29: 580

                    Trade: -1650
                    Construction: -750
                    Sanitation: -350
                    Refrigeration: 60

                    Automobile: 400
                    Computers: 720
                    Space Flight: 920

                    -4000 Alphabet, Bronze Working, Ceremonial Burial
                    -3950 Rock of Ages founded by Cassiopeia ... hmmm - world map?
                    -3900 another Whale
                    -3600 N-Chariot(h) ... non-unit, so close? Must be SMALL world map ...
                    -3550 Seychellions, Peace, N-Chariot(h)
                    -3350 N-Archers(h), traded for Mysticism and Map Making(S), Luxembourgers, traded for Writing and Code of Laws, Ally, 50(h)
                    -3250 50(h)
                    -3200 Library
                    -3150 100(h)
                    -3100 Gold mined ... Road and irrigation ...
                    -3050 Tibetians, Peace, gave Mysticism -> Ally(T), Maps
                    -2900 N-Archers(h)
                    -2800 N-Chariot(h)
                    -2650 Literacy, S3
                    -2550 50(h)
                    -2400 N-Chariot(h)
                    -2350 S: "We have Seafaring"
                    -2050 The Republic, REPUBLIC, di Warriors, Currency(h), 3 techs->L, 25 , 1 tech-, traded for Seafaring(S), 2 techs->S, Ally(S), Maps
                    -1650 COLOSSUS, Philosophy->Trade, traded for Iron Working(L), 1 tech->L, traded for The Wheel and Horseback Riding(T), 1 tech->T, 50 , traded for Pottery and Warrior Code(S), 1 tech->S, 125
                    -1550 Temple, We Love , Barb Leader (150)
                    -1500 S4
                    -1450 Marketplace, S5
                    -1400 S6
                    -1350 Salt, S7
                    -1300 We Love ends
                    -1250 Trireme, Banking(h), 1 tech->T,S, 50,100,75
                    -1200 Eskimos, 50->E for Peace , 4 techs->E, Maps, no Ally , won't trade tech
                    -1150 Harbor
                    -1100 Medicine, Salt to Umnak Island (192)
                    -1050 Bank, L-T at war
                    -1000 Traded for Polytheism(S), 1,10,5 tech->S,T,L, 100,50,50 , 6 techs->E, traded for Astronomy, Mathematics, Masonry
                    -975 Gold, Jamaicans, 15 techs->J, Maps, Ally
                    -925 Beads, Gold to Umnak Island (d,416)
                    -900 University
                    -875 University
                    -850 S8, 2 Barb Legions
                    -825 Food
                    -800 4 techs->L,T,S, 150,50,150
                    -775 Food, Beads to Umnak Island (228)
                    -750 Food, Construction
                    -725 COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY
                    -675 Food
                    -650 Engineering
                    -625 Food
                    -600 2 techs->S, 150
                    -575 Aquaduct
                    -550 Bridge Building, S9
                    -525 Theory of Gravity(h)
                    -500 5,4,2,4 techs->J,T,S,L 50,25,150,- , Maps(J,T,L), 50->E, 3 techs->E, traded for Navigation and Physics
                    -475 Food
                    -450 Economics, Invention(h)
                    -425 Food
                    -400 SHAKESPEARE'S THEATRE, We Love
                    -375 S10, Fijians, 22 techs->F, Maps, Peace
                    -350 Sanitation, S11, 5 techs->J, 100 , Maps
                    -325 Sewer System, S12
                    -300 S13, 1 tech->T,S,L 100,150,50 , Maps(S)
                    -275 Stock Exchange, S14, 50(h), Barb Legion
                    -250 S15
                    -225 Wine, Democracy, DEMOCRACY, S16
                    -200 S17, 1 tech->S, 100
                    -175 Food, S18
                    -150 Gunpowder, S19, 3 techs->F
                    -125 Food, S20, 6 techs->L, 1 tech->T, 100
                    -100 S21, 1 tech->S, 50
                    -75 Food, Metallurgy, S22, 1 tech->S, 50
                    -50 S23
                    -25 Food, S24
                    1 Magnetism, S25, 1 tech->L,T, 50,50 , 50->E , 7 techs->E
                    (PYRAMIDS - Jamaicans)
                    20 Food, We Love ends
                    40 Electricity, Wine to Suva (d,676)
                    60 Food, Refrigeration, traded for Monarchy(J), 5 techs->J, N-Elephant(h)
                    80 ISAAC NEWTON'S COLLEGE
                    100 Chemistry, 10,5,5 techs->T,L,S 50,50,- , 6 techs->F, Maps(T,L,F,S)
                    120 Supermarket
                    140 Explosives
                    160 Diplomat, 1 tech->L, 100
                    180 Steam Engine, 6 techs->E
                    (GREAT LIBRARY - Jamaicans )
                    200 Bribed L->N Settlers (696)
                    220 Railroad, 4 techs->J, Maps
                    240 Food
                    260 Industrialization, 1,4,3 techs->T,S,L, 50,25,- , Maps(S,L)
                    280 Factory
                    300 The Corporation
                    320 Food
                    340 Refining, 3 techs->E, traded for Monotheism(E), 1,6,1 techs->S,T,L 50,-,75 , Maps(T)
                    360 Oil
                    380 Steel, disband N-Archers, 1 tech->L, 50
                    400 DARWIN'S VOYAGE -> Combustion,Automobile, di N-Archers
                    420 Superhighways, Mass Production, 1 tech->L,S, 50,50
                    460 Mass Transit, Electronics, di N-Chariot, 1 tech->L,T,S, 25,25,50
                    480 Power Plant, 1 tech->L, 50
                    500 Feudalism, We Love , Oil to Suva (597)
                    520 Food, Chivalry, S26, 50->F, 13 techs->F, traded for Conscription, Maps, 12 techs->J, Maps, gift? -> J end alliance
                    50->E, 8 techs->E, Maps, no Ally ;(, 1 tech->S,T, 50,25 , di Trireme
                    540 Food, S27, br L->N Engineers(648)
                    560 Leadership, S28
                    580 Food, S29, sold Sewer System
                    600 Tactics, We Love ends , sold Aquaduct
                    (LEONARDO'S WORKSHOP - Seychellions )
                    620 Food, br L->N Engineers (680), sold Temple
                    640 Machine Tools
                    660 Food
                    680 Miniaturization
                    700 Offshore Platform, 5 techs->L, 50
                    720 Food, Computers, di N-Chariot
                    740 Research Lab, Grassland/r into Hills/r, mined -> Hunger=4
                    760 Flight
                    800 Radio
                    840 Advanced Flight, Plains/r into Grassland/r -> Hunger=3
                    880 Rocketry, br Barb->N Dragoons (102), 2 Barb Dragoons
                    920 Space Flight
                    940 APOLLO PROGRAM, Grassland/r into Hills/r, di N-Dragoons
                    960 S01, Plastics, Hills/r mined -> 65 shields, Hunger=6
                    1 tech->L, 100 , di N-Chariot
                    980 S02, di N-Chariot
                    1000 S03, Atomic Theory, Barbs take Mandeville
                    1020 C01
                    1040 C02, Nuclear Fission
                    1060 S04
                    1080 S05, Nuclear Power
                    1100 S06, di N-Settlers
                    1120 S07, The Laser, di N-Settlers
                    (WOMEN'S SUFFRAGE - Seychellions)
                    1140 S08, di Diplomat
                    1160 S09, Superconductor, di N-Elephant
                    1180 S10
                    1200 S11, Fusion Power
                    1220 S12, traded for Communism(L), 1 tech->L
                    1240 S13
                    1260 S14, 50->J, traded for Genetic Engineering(J)
                    1280 S15
                    1300 M01
                    1320 M02, sold Power Plant
                    1340 M03, LAUNCH the GSS CASSIOPEIA 15-1-1-1-1-1
                    1342 Nuclear Plant, Mobile Warfare
                    1343 Barracks
                    1344 Alpine Troops, Robotics
                    1346 Manufacturing Plant, Guerilla Warfare
                    1347 City Walls
                    1348 Espionage
                    1349 SDI Defence
                    1350 Stealth
                    1351 Airport
                    1352 Stealth Fighter, Labor Union, di Alpine Troops
                    1353 SAM Missile Battery, S28
                    1354 Armor, Recycling, S27
                    1355 Spy, S26, S break alliance over Rocketry
                    1357 Environmentalism
                    1359 Solar Plant, sold Nuclear Plant
                    1360 Theology
                    (MAGELLAN'S EXPEDITION - Seychellions)
                    1362 HANGING GARDENS
                    1363 Amphibious Warfare
                    1365 THE LIGHTHOUSE
                    1366 Combined Arms, S Sneak Attack, S Cavalry almost kills vet Armor in fort, Allies come to the aid
                    1367 S Explorer
                    1368 MARCO POLO'S EMBASSY
                    1369 Fundamentalism
                    1370 S Destroyer
                    1372 Future Tech 1
                    1373 ADAM SMITH'S TRADING CO., Peace(S), Space Flight->L, 75 , 1 tech->T, 100
                    1374 1 tech->L,T, 75,100
                    1375 Future Tech 2
                    1376 The "GSS CASSIOPEIA" lands on ALPHA CENTAURI

                    Score: 356 (46%)

                    If you have no feet, don't walk on fire
                    A horse! A horse! Mingapulco for a horse! Someone must give chase to Brave Sir Robin and get those missing flags ...
                    Project Lead of Might and Magic Tribute


                    • #40
                      Stop these sanguinary goblins!!!

                      Well done Rib - you are showing us how to do it.

                      The SGs in concert - and green with envy
                      "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
                      "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit


                      • #41
                        Congratulations! Amazing how much difference just a few turns makes early in the Second Millinium AD. I was comparing Ribannah's game to the OCC#9 best. SG's 1516 was only 7 turns behind, and yet 1 1/2 centuries late

                        Also, there was quite an interesting tech path here, building the university before Cope's and building both before an aquaduct. Heck, she built a harbor and a bank before building the university, and skipped the colosseum altogether, as well as monarchy, although with the techs he got from the AI, so would have I. She practically turned the quick reference table upside down. Its pretty amazing some the techs she got from the AI too - she got to skip a lot of key techs like Astronomy and Physics, and with her internal structures already built by the time she built Shakes, she seems to have been able to make up for starting the main pop explosion later than usual. Getting Automobile with Darwin's must have been nice

                        One other point of interest is I only see 3 total commodity caravans sent out - was that by design, or was it by necessity? with Umnak Island periodically demanding gold, I found the extra caravans gave me several 1-turn discoveries throughout my post-death continuation, which was a rather nice boost to an otherwise mistake-prone OCC attempt

                        Sleep is a luxury and I don't have Shakespeare's Theatre in my back yard.
                        [This message has been edited by SCG (edited October 09, 2000).]
                        Insert witty phrase here


                        • #42

                          Originally posted by SCG on 10-06-2000 07:37 PM
                          Getting Automobile with Darwin's must have been nice

                          Well, that's what this girl usually does by design, and not too hard to accomplish. It's the most efficient way to use Darwin's Voyage.


                          One other point of interest is I only see 3 total commodity caravans sent out - was that by design, or was it by necessity?

                          In MGE it takes much longer before you get another chance to build a commodity caravan - except when you can exploit the Hides bug, of course. IIRC the Eskimos did indeed demand Gold, but we never supplied it.

                          If you have no feet, don't walk on fire
                          A horse! A horse! Mingapulco for a horse! Someone must give chase to Brave Sir Robin and get those missing flags ...
                          Project Lead of Might and Magic Tribute