Naval Warfare.

[Makeo]

All my comments relate to MP since i've never actually experienced naval warfare against the ai.


I was wondering what other people thought about the comparison between Sun Tzu's and Magellans with respect to Naval warfare.
ie if one human civ had Sun Tzu's and the other had Magellans, which would be expected to win a naval war.
I think most people would initially say the civ with Magellans however although Magellans adds to the movement of your ships it doesn't effect the veteran status.
Sun Tzu's does not give you an automatic veteran ship when you build it but it does make any ship that wins in combat a vet. Granted that might have happened anyway but with Sun Tzu's it happens every time.

So my view is that with Sun Tzu's you can build up a veteran navy that could defeat the opponents navy even though they have the advantage of extra movement.

thoughts?


I know i had other things to discuss about Naval warfare but i can't remember. I haven't really thought about it a lot since i haven't been involved in it to much, until recently. So i'd be interested in hearing other peoples thoughts on any aspect of fighting on the sea. MP of course
Maybe this should be in the MP forum.

[Alexander's Horse]

I think you should just surrender.

[Ming]

Before Port Facilities are available to you, I would have to give the nod to Sun Tzu's.

You just build a ship and cruise the coast looking for a weak unit to kill. Instant Vet.

Now granted, your ships still have to be as good or better than your enemies... but I just love those vet ironclads

[Scouse Gits]

I have yet to play MP - I vote for the vet Ironclads too! But don't forget that Magellan's makes the caravans pop in faster -and trading is generally is more efficient. Transports that only move 5 - yuk?!
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SG (2)

[Alexander's Horse]

Ming, don't help him

[cavebear]

Makeo - What a great question! The two seem perfectly opposed in possible advantage.

I think I would want to be the attacking party with either; the usual advantages of terrain for the defense don't exist in naval battles (and assuming that neither is near home ports).

Magellan's allows attacks and the possiblity of escaping out of range for damaged ships, Sun's don't get any advantage until they kill something (to get vet status). And Magellan ships will get vet status anyway if they survive.

Sun's ships will get vet status before engaging other ships just by sniping off the available shoreline units, but they can't escape as well.

I think that the longer the naval battles go on, the greater advantage goes to the Magellan ships. More likely, the advantage will go to the one with the better stacking and deployment skills than by which Wonder you have.

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[Smash]

Veterans are everything in this game but it sure is nice having 2 more moves.

hmmm....I guess it depends on how watery the map is.

I think I would like to have both.And The Lighthouse

What about The Lighthouse?Is it obsoleted?Who has/had it?

[Alexander's Horse]

Bad luck for makeo that I don't leave "loose" units lying around for his ships to attack

Anyway stop helping him guys - he has many advantages in this war, which he started, notably more troops and cities. I'm the underdog here

[Mao]

It'd really depend what you were fighting. A full-on naval engagement? A race to a new continent to colonize? Or just all-out war?

[SuperSneak]

Too bad this is a computer game. If it was a board game, I'm sure one of these two would eventually have a hissy fit and upset the board, scattering pieces everywhere.
Makeo, I suggest you move your non-vet navy right next to Horse's veteran battleship, parking all of your units in one stack on their last move.
Happy, Horse?

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Bring it!

"Do not act as if you would live ten thousand years. Death hangs over you. While you live, while it is in your power, be good." Marcus Aurelius (Meditations)

[arii]

I think it depends on the units involved. Caravels: I'd take magellan.
Cruisers: I'd take sun.
With low defense numbers, movement is more important; with good defense number(=to attack) vet is more important.

[Alexander's Horse]

quote: <font size=1>Originally posted by SuperSneak on 07-27-2000 10:30 AM</font> If it was a board game, I'm sure one of these two would eventually have a hissy fit and upset the board, scattering pieces everywhere.

Oh yeah, I'm a past master of this tactic Other options include spilling a hot drink or letting the spaniel in the house

Trouble is, the guys I used to play with could remember exactly where everything was, for both sides. This is when the "mum upset the board when cleaning and I can't find all the pieces - she must've vacuumed them" gambit came into play

The other option is a rules dispute - but that one has already been used in this game

Arii, good point but I doubt cruisers are going to come into play.


<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Alexander's Horse (edited July 27, 2000).]</font>
[This message has been edited by Alexander's Horse (edited July 27, 2000).]

[Matthew]

Before Ironclads, Magellans. If you can get the lighthouse too, then Magellans has the definite advantage a bit longer.

After Iron clads, it isn't so cut and dry as you might think. Granted, any fight a boat wins means vet status. But vet status can also be obtained without the Acadamy. it just takes more tries. But opportunities will arrive. such as taking out that now vet but heavily damaged boat that just sunk your ship, which you will easily find and reach because you have magellans and it is damaged.
So you can still get vets between the lighthouse and amphibious warfare. The other guy isn't going to get the two movement bonus.

Also, magellans will give your weak transport vessels a lot more survivability. You can wait 2 squares outside of his city to drop off a caravan or military load, and on your turn drop it off and move your transport out of range of any boat in the city you just visited.

[Alexander's Horse]

All my ships are vets

[Ming]

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse on 07-28-2000 12:15 AM All my ships are vets

So... Vet ships can be sunk too