OCC fortnight #16 - discussion and logs

[Paul]

Oldman donated a scenario for OCC16. You start with a settler and a spy. There are roads leading away from your starting location in 4 directions. Each road leads to a bribable AI city.

You start with 500 gold so you can bribe the phalanx blocking the road and your city. You will have enough gold left to buy a palace once you have collected at least one shield.

Download the game at http://members.home.nl/paulvdb/occ16.zip

I already played it and unfortunaytely got myself killed one turn before because I had neglected my defense. I thought I would be able to last that one extra turn, but I didn't . I would have launched in 1772 for a 1787 landing.

Edit: play as the Merrymen civilization.
[This message has been edited by Paul (edited August 22, 2000).]

[tonic]

Thanks also for the defence tip - OCCers often take survival in the early game for granted, having only to worry about Barbs! Looks like Oldman's up to his "neighbourly" best again.

[SCG]

heh, I took Paul's heed to heart and still almost bit it less than 50 turns in with a freak coordinated attack by 2 different AI, losing 2 units and barely having a third survive - fortunately I had just rush-built a temple in prep for an aquaduct, and my city was due to grow to 4 that turn or I'd have been in real trouble...

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April Cantor: Sire, in order to expand further we must first gain favor of the King

SCG: darn, I've never really got the hang of that tribute thing, guess it will be a long time until i make prince

*goes off and starts gifting gold and techs*

[Caesar]

I will play this tommorrow and see how I do. I don't have time today but I look forward to playing it. Wish me luck, my first OCC game in a while, I'm gonna reread your site tonight and a few threads, then I'm off to conquer the world, or at least AC

[Tom DeMille]

Thanks.

[Scouse Gits]

Wish me luck - on my current track record I will probably get killed by the damn phalanx!!


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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Ribannah]

Hmmm, I tried sitting still for a turn, hoping that the English would take the war serious and sac their phalanxes, saving me the bribe. But no ... they remained passive!
Very authentic

- Rib -

[Caesar]

Ok, I'm sitting here, still 4000 BC wondering which direction to go... the hut in the north looks quite appealing right now... but that might be a waste of turn, then again it might not. Starting techs alphabet and masonry... celts and french are probably the nearby cities due to the fact that they have 2 cities size 2 on the top 10. Demographics look fair, no wonders built by anyone. This shouldn't be fun. Well I'm going to Pauls OCC page, getting a pen and paper and some water, my muscles are still aching from that time trial 200 meters in cross country practice... maybe I'll take a shower first, but I really can't wait... looks like a great scenario, wish me luck.

[Caesar]

I'm playing its the year 780 AD, I'm getting tired of the log so I'll just give the important points. Its becoming very annoying, half my huts have been barbs and I only have contact with 3 civs one who I am at war with. I choose the city to the north, I managed to trade maps for the other areas and I think that the north one is the best. The Celts are being a pain in the ass because they're using one of my sqaures, the french nearly beat me to Copernicus' now they're beating me to Isaac Newtons. I'm sitting here ready to beat my computer screen... so far, the highlights...

1750 BC Colossus
1050 BC Monarchy
200 BC Coperniucus'
140 AD Republic
160 AD All caravans reach cities
460 AD Shakespeares
760 AD Democracy

As you can see I had a pretty bad start with monarchy coming very late and trade FAR too late, the tech tree messed me up and the AI kept giving techs instead of money as gifts... its raining here in ny (like you'd care) but I think I'll go get something to eat and finish the game later today, I really need a break

[phaedrus]

I'm having a similarly poor experience with this one. I went to the North and caused the city to revolt, my spy miraculously survived and became a vet. This worked out great as I used her to travel the continent in search of huts. I just couldn't get the science rate up though and the AI's would only cease fire for techs for a turn or two and then they would come back. I think I'll be lucky to launch before 1900. The tech tree never helped me at all. I found so many techs in huts (all useless) that it really messed me up I think.

I'm not into logs yet as I like to get through the games as fast as possible (a spousely thing you know), but I'll post my key info if I make it through. Good Luck to you all.

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"Then what happened"

[SCG]

A couple weeks ago i would have been thrilled with an 1837AD AC landing. Now, I look and see that I was 25 turns behind Paul's projected date, and I could have been 1827 easily, and probably 1797 if not for my start of the game. Actually having embassies really helped me early on, although it also kept me from discovering a tech on my own for the first 2000 years, kind of slowed down the push to monarchy. That and my futile attempt to grow quickly. It took me 20 turns to irrigate the wheat, and all the while i was ignoring the gold trying to grow. This was one case where I think trying to grow really stunted my growth. On the plus side, once I finally got alliances with the french and celts, they were more than happy to finance my early growth. Unfortunately, once I had some trade routes established, their generosity dried up. I think part of it was I was getting gold faster than I could spend it (with 10 shield production, it only costs 38 gold/turn for 2-turn caravans), and when they had enough gold again to donate it to me, I had far more than either of them, and it grew from there. High profit caravans and the occasional slight miscalculation on the science rate (beaker window 99% full, so max taxes to avoid wasting trade) put my treasury among the highest in the game. I even stopped sending out caravans to supplement my beaker production and keep it under 3 turns per tech to keep the french from demanding 500-1000 gp at one point (I was really worried while i was building Apollo's that they were going to cancel the alliance - they were uncooperative - One of the reasons i built all my components before most of my structurals was to drain my treasury, and i still had about 8 freights left over. Makes me wonder if I should have rush-built caravans in 1 turn when I was producing them in 2 turns at no cost. Well, I ramble. On to the game:

Diety 2.42
AC 1837 AD

Monarchy: -1850
Republic: -825
Democracy: 540

Colossus: -2050
Cope's: -400
Skake's: -125
Ike's: 500
Darwin's: 1140
Apollo: 1774

trade: -825, -700, -525

size 12: -550
size 21: 440


-4000 hmm, established embassy, noticed i can't bribe it - must not be one of the choices. ahh, roads - didn't seem them at first... using movement probably cost me getting to 2 of the cities knowing how they are set up, so - if spy survives bribing will make a wonderful explorer silk and pheasant prolly are irrellavent - lets try south - hmm, wheat, pheasant, river - feasable - french demanding alphabet - to give or not to give that is the question - will be more expensive if i make peace... - i can gift it later if it matters - they have another city (2 actually), and they are icy anyway. revolt, (heh, returned to Spy? - guess I've never bribed without having a city before )reclaim Locksly Castle, bronze working (not near enough gold to buy a palace!) disband horseman (now there is)
-3950 palace, hut, chariot
-3850 hut, 50 gp
-3800 hut, barb horseman, chariot dies
-3750 hut, horseback riding
-3600 someone died attacking the barb horseman - think there's a city nearby
-3400 hut, none horseman
-3350 peace, french, peace, celtics
-3250 hut, warrior code
-3100 hut, Zimbabwe => Iron Working
-2850 - wierd french don't expel my spy
-2600 hut, pottery (grumble)
-2450 mapmaking, alliance (celts) (every time i get close, i get another tech!!!)
-2350 iron working, alliance,ceremonial burial (finally) (French)
-2250 hut, legion
-2100 Code of Laws (my first discovery?), barb leader captured (took forever to track him down in Sherwood forest )
-2050 Colossus, English and French get monarchy... maybe in 1900 i'll ask the french for a gift?
-1900 Monarchy (French), revolt
-1850 Monarchy founded
-1800 temple, WL
-1725 phalanx dies to english horsie, warrior takes out horse
-1700 ack, spanish kill warrior with trireme, and i can't buy the trireme(expelled spy is only defence in the city atm), legion too far away, horseman nearly killed by an attacking warrior while in forest, city due to grows to 4 is right back down to 3...
-1450 writing (french) - i'll get my second discovery one of these days if i survive, currency, 150 gp (celts)
-1400 library, sabotage spanish trireme, spy survives
-1250 trade
-1150 construction, 200 gp (french), literacy (celts)
-1100 marketplace
-1000 Aquaduct
-975 100 gp (celts)
-950 caravan
-900 hmm, nearly at republic, lets tread water with this caravan
-825 Republic, revolt, Republic founded, silk (204, demanded) to the Evil Castle
-800 caravan, size 5, cancel WL (no mystism yet)
-750 Mathmatics
-725 colosseum, WL
-700 100 gp (french), cloth (demanded, 160) to Lyons
-675 caravan
-625 caravan, Mystism
-575 caravan
-550 size 12, cancel WL
-525 silver (demanded, 228) to Camarthen
-500 Philosophy, Astronomy
-475 caravan, bridge building, peace (English), 25 gp (Celts), darn it when did the french build Tours! they are using my sea space I'll have to watch it when I start working our mutual hills, they only have 3 spaces that bring in more than 1 food excluding MY whale
-425 sell temple
-400 Copernicus' Observatory
-350 caravan
-325 100 gp (celts), french still under 100 gp
-300 caravan
-250 caravan, 100 gp (french)
-200 caravan, University (should have done wheel here...)
-150 caravan, 100 gp (Celts), sell colosseum
-125 Shakespeare's Theatre, hmm Tours is clearing some of their 11 forests and mining 1 of its 3 hills, wonder if they'll do my hills too? - no gold from my allies for a while, they don't have 75 gp between them
-75 Wheel
20 university, Engineering
40 100 gp (Celts)
100 Sanitation, 50 gp (french)
120 Sewer System, WL
180 Banking, 100 gp (celts), french still below 50
200 Bank
240 caravan
260 Theory of Gravity, cancel WL (19)
280 caravan
300 50 gp (Celts), 50 gp (french)
320 caravan, Chemistry
360 caravan
400 caravan, Invention, WL
440 caravan, size 21, cancel WL, 50 gp (Celts), french patience runs thin
500 Isaac Newton's College, yep - Tours settlers are preparing mines on a hills square I'm using
540 Harbor, Democracy, revolt, Democracy founded
560 WL
580 caravan, size 22, cancel WL, share maps (French)
600 Economics, french finish mines - I'm over 20 shields now
620 caravan
640 gunpowder
660 caravan
680 Explosives, gold (demanded, 165) to Chartres
700 caravan
720 Navigation
740 Stock Exchange
760 WL
780 Engineers, cancel WL
820 caravan
840 Magnetism
860 caravan
900 caravan, Metalurgy, heh, they're going to road the mines for me as well , of course I'm a tad early for refrigeration, settlers don't know what to do
940 caravan
960 Electricity. gold (demanded, 171) to Chartres
980 caravan
1000 Refrigeration
1020 Supermarket, WL
1060 Engineers, Steam Engine
1080 cease fire (english), 100 gp (French)
1100 caravan
1120 Railroad, size 26 (cancel WL)
1140 Darwin's Voyage, Industrialization, Corporation
1180 freight, Electronics
1200 gems (demanded, 278) to The Evil Castle, 50 gp (Celts)
1240 Steel
1260 freight, copper (demanded, 130) to Kells
1300 freight, refining
1340 freight
1360 Combustion, beads (demanded, 144) to lyons, gold (demanded, 360) to cardiff
1380 freight
1400 Automobile, 100 gp (french), 25 gp (celts)
1420 Superhighways
1440 Mass Production
1460 freight
1480 Feudalism, oil (undemanded, 118) to tours
1500 freight
1510 Chivalry
1520 freight, beads (demanded, 227) to tours, bribe barb crusader
1530 Leadership
1540 freight
1550 gee, its nice of you frenchmen to clean up my pollution, but i can do it faster. really!
1560 freight, Conscription
1580 freight
1590 tactics start WL
1600 freight, size 27
1610 size 28, cancel WL
1620 factory, Machine Tools, beads (demanded, 235) to Tours
1640 power plant
1650 Miniaturization
1660 off shore platform
1680 Computers
1690 Research Lab
1700 freight, Mobile Warfare
1710 freight
1720 Robotics
1730 Manufacturing Plant
1740 freight, flight
1750 freight
1752 freight,
1754 freight, Radio, coal (demanded, 143), WL
1756 freight, size 29, cancel WL
1758 freight
1760 Advanced Flight
1666 Rocketry
1772 Space Flight, Atomic Theory, 50 gp (Celts)
1774 Apollo Program (17 freight/caravan and a healthy treasury, and no one else has flight, peace and/or alliances with everyone on the continent - besides probably having been to conservative once again, I wonder what I have to worry about...)
1776 struct #1
1778 #2, Plastics, french => tactics, conscription and steam engine for communism and continued alliance
1780 comp #1
1782 comp #2
1784 comp #3, Nuclear Fission, sell sewer system (only 28 years late)
1786 comp #4, sell aquaduct
1788 comp #5
1790 comp #6
1792 struct #3
1794 #4
1796 #5, Laser
1798 #6
1800 #7
1802 #8, Superconductor
1804 #9
1806 #10
1808 #11, Fusion Power
1810 #12
1812 #13 (heh, 3 french diplomats all lined up in a row outside my city, probably more just can't see with my spy)
1814 #14
1816 module #1
1818 #15, 50 gp (Celt), bribe Celt diplomat, expell 2 french diplomats (wow, they appologize)
1820 mod #2, heh, french send 2 stacks of diplomats this time
1822 mod #3, launch
1823 City Walls, oops, can't expel them from overlapping terrain...
1824 Mass transit - heh, little good that did
1825 Coastal Fortress
1826 Armor
1827 french steal plastic, English sneak attack (killed my legion in the fort), plus side french come to my aid and those dozen or so diplomats all zip right past my city off towards the evil castle
1828 fighter, Stealth
1829 Stealth Fighter
1830 armor
1832 Battleship, polytheism for superconductor, leadership for Genetic Engineering (french) war with persians at french urging
1833 Howitzer
1834 Armor
1835 SAM
1836 Airport
1837 Alpha Centari! Little John the Cruel of the Merrymen

All dressed up and no one to fight After that early game scare, I never did see another spanish unit, or for that matter other than a persian trireme that died attacking my legion, a persian or mongolian unit either. About all i did was provide cover for the french diplomats with my 2 fighters. Only threat was all the diplomats and the english sneak attack dealt with that.

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April Cantor: Sire, in order to expand further we must first gain favor of the King

SCG: darn, I've never really got the hang of that tribute thing, guess it will be a long time until i make prince

*goes off and starts gifting gold and techs*

[Caesar]

I died... I got apollo, then everything went to hell...

960 AD Isaac Newtons
1610 AD Darwins
1838 AD Apollo
1870 AD Death

I had 4 Structurals and 6 components done. Then I had to switch to military production because 3 civs launched invasions and my few miliary units couldn't hold. I managed to keep them off for a good ammount of time. Then when I started to restart my spaceship construction france launched a HUGE invasion on me. 3 battleships destroyed my inner city defense, 6 tanks tore down the rest of the defenses and 2 bombers knocked out my last line of defenses. It wasn't fun... I was yelling at my computer, my mom thought I was insane, which isn't too far from the truth

Well, it was a nice scenario.

[Ribannah]

This scenario is really different with MGE. No gifts or alliances of course (deity), but my Spy can steal their tech quite handily. Not too often or else she won't last .... and only what I need of course (Polytheism, yuck!). Huts give me cash, mostly.

All is well until the late middle ages when

A H U N D R E D Barbarians show up, all Musketeers and Cannons .

My best unit is an Elephant (bribed during the last onslaught) ... my Archers are holding off the French in the SE ... my spy could help out, but she's on an ex-Barbarian Trireme the other side of the world

HELP!!

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Smash]

I had a relatively easy time with this one.In my game the ais were very hospitable once I repaired my reputation.Early alliances with the English,Celts and French made it real cozy.Embassys were very important.That spy was great!!She made 4 or 5 mission before being captured.Those 3 gave me tons of help.Later the Celts rolled over the English but the alliance with France and Celts lasted all game.

I went about it wrong in the beginning and bribed 2 phalanx.Although I got my city cheap I didnt have enough gold to build my palace for a bit.I did get earlier contact that way and a better look at 3 of 4 positions but my research languished early game.Thats where the embassys and spy went to work.

I was able to make contact with the Mongols but had my explorer sent home the turn before I would have contacted Persia.Later I was able to form an alliance with the Mongols.Shortlived but formed.

It turned out to be good decision to build a transport and freight to make contact with Persia.My research took a big turn for the good after massive tech gifting.

A few early attacks and barbs but mostly smooth sailin.Well..not exactly I came within a whisker of death when the French attacked and my city went from size 2 to 1.

2 of my 3 government techs were timed perfectly.Especially good was Demo as my "we love days" carried over.

I accidently found if you set an engineer to work mining,then IMMEDIATELY click him to stop,that engineer will be able to clean pollution in one turn.I used it in between pollution to have 1 engineer help the settler finish up with terrain improvements.

deity 2.42

Arrival-1789ad

Collosus-1600bc
Cope’s-425bc
Shake’s-1ad
Sir Isaac-520ad
Darwin’s-1020ad
Apollo-1590ad

Monarchy-2250bc
Republic-925bc
Democracy-140ad

Trade-1300bc
Construction-1100-bc
Sanitation-50bc
Refrigeration-700ad
Automobile-1020
Computers-1340ad
Space Flight-1550ad

trade
1-975bc
2-925bc
3-825bc

12-550bc
21-260ad


4000-establish embassy with England-bribe SE phalanx-187-bribe NE phalanx 187
3950-gift Masonry to English-ceasefire-contact French-gift Mason-trade Alpha for Bronze-peace-hut-archer
3900-contact Celts-peace-establish embassy with French-bribe Lyons 87>Horseback Riding-spy returned-tax rate funny
3850-hut 25
3700-gift Horseback to England-ceasefire with French-establish embassy with Celts-trade celts Mason for Burial
3550-hut-horseman
3500-hut barb horse-bribed 41
3250-French declare war-disband phalanx-hut barb horse
3200-pop decrease 2>1(french attack)-hut-50
3150-peace with England
2950-palace
2800-alliance with Celts against England
2500-steal Laws from French-spy returned
2450-gift Laws to England-ceasefire
2250-Monarchy-instant revolution.....hehehe....trade Celts Monarchy for Writing-steal Currency from French-spy captured @#$%-gift Writing and Monarchy to French-war to alliance-trade England Currency for Map Making-gift Monarchy-peace
2200-gift Map to French-gift Currency to Celts-share maps
2100-Celts gift 75
2000-English destroyed by Celts
1850-size 4
1800-French gift Literacy-trade to Celts for Pottery-receive 100
1650-French gift 100
1600-Collosus
1350-French gift 150-emptied their treasury
1300-library-trade French Pottery for Trade-gift Trade to Celts-receive 100-emptied their treasury also
1200-Mystism-silver caravan-share maps with Celts and French
1100-hides caran-trade Celts Myst for Construction
1000-10%luxury
975-size 5-silver to Carmartthen(demanded)150
950-Philosophy>Republic-gold caravan-revolt at END of turn
925-government-Republic...oh ya!oedo oedo oedo-hides to Orleans 56-gift Republic to Celts and French
900-temple
875-”we love” 5-disband horseman-share maps with Celts and French
825-market-gold to Carmarthen 86-end “we love” 7
800-Mathematics-Math to Celts-Construction to French
775-Myst to French-Philosophy to Celts
750-Math to France
725-colliseum-Philosophy to French-Celts gift 50
675-”we love” 7-French gift Banking-gift it to Celts
625-aquaduct-Celts gift 50-French 75
600-Astronomy
575-caravan
550-end “we love” 12-sell colliseum
525-caravan-Celts gift 100-French 150
500-caravan
475-caravan
450-caravan-Celts gift 100-French 50
425-Cope’s-trade Astronomy to Celts for Warrior Code-share maps-gift Astronomy to French
400-Medicine
350-cloth caravan
325-gift Warrior Code to French-share maps
275-The Wheel-hides caravan
250-trade French Wheel for Seafaring-receive 100-gift Wheel to Celts-this real cozy right now
225-caravan-cloth to Carmarthen-153
175-Engineering-explorer
125-caravan
100-caravan-trade Celts Seafaring for Iron Working-receive 75-gift Iron to French
75-caravan
50-Sanitation-gift it to Celts and French-hides to Kells 102
25-caravan-Celts gift 75-French 100-sell temple lux>0
---------------------------------
1AD-Shake’s
20-trade French Engineering for University-gift Medicine-University to Celts
40-Invention-”we love” 12-barbs arrive-great just in time to screw my clebration
60-sewer system-as long as current rate holds I should get Democracy in 140 -hut-elephant-NON-Engineering to Celts
80-barbs ruin the parade 13
100-harbor-”we love” 13
120-Celts gift 100-French 75
140-Democracy-revolt-bank built-govt emocracy-gotta make contact with the others-polar expedition underway-gift Invention to Celts and French
160-we love “carries over”-lovely! -Medicine and Democracy to Celts-Democracy to French
200-contact Mongols-gift 14 techs and 50-gold-share maps-won’t ally-something about the Celts although my Celtic embassy shows no contact
220-3 more techs to Mongols-still won’t ally-hut-2 barb horses-
240-Gravity
280-end ”we love” 22-built university
300-hut-25-French gift Bridge Building-gift it to Celts and Mongols
320-Economics-caravan-gift Eco to Celts,French and Mongols
340-Celts gift 25-French 50
360-caravan
380-Chemistry-caravan
400-caravan-trade Chemistry to Celts for Gunpowder-receive 25-gift Gunpowder to French and Mongols
420-caravan
440-Explosives-gift to Celts and French-gift Gunpowder to Mongols
460-Celts gift 25-French 100-Explosives to Mongols
480-Celts gift 50-French 100
500-Metallurgy-caravan
520-Sir Isaac’s-gift 50 gold and Gravity to Mongols to save my explorer
540-Navigation-gift in to Celts-trade it to French for Feudalism-receive 100-gift Feud and Nav to Mongols-contact Spanish-pay them 200 in tribute -gift 24 techs!!! -peace-share maps
560-gift Gravity to Celts and French
580-Physics-gift it to all-Celts have overlapped my city
620-Magnetims-stock exchange
640-explore sent home.#$%@ couldn’t contact the Persians
660-Electricity-diplomat-disband explorer-trade Celts Magnet for Chivalry-French gift 150”we love” 22
680-engineer-end we love 22-tech gifting
700-Refrigeration-more gifting
720-caravan-trade Electicity to French for Conscription-more gifting-Celts gift 50
740-Steam Engine
760-Engineer-French gift 150-Celts 50
780-Railroad
800-supermarket-Celts gift 50-French 150
820-Industrialization-gift it to all contacted
840-gems caravan
860-The Corporation
880-freight
900-Steel
920-freight-”we love” 21-gift RR to Mongols,Spain and Celts-Steam to French,Mongols and Spain-alliance with Mongols
960-freight-friggin research bouncing between 2 and 4 turns.Impossible to predict-last turn I was just a sliver short of filling the beaker box.This turn there is still a good 1/4 to fill -gift Steel to all contacted
1000-Refining(finally)-freight-gift Refin to all
1020-Darwin’s>Combustion>Automobile-Celts gift 25-French 50
1040-end “we love” 27-share maps with Mongols-sell sewer-can’t get 2 turns.Gotts contact Persia.Orange didn’t restart either @#$%
1060-sell aquaduct-Celts gift 25-French 50
1080-Mass Production-superhighway-gems to Paris(finally)(demanded)446
1120-Electronics-mass transit-(engineers don’t have time to clean pollution right now)-Celts gift 25-French 50
1140-pheasant>buffalo
1160-Leadership-freight
1200-Tactics-oil freight-bribe Celtic Engineer 412(NON)
1220-bribe barb knight 82(NON)
1240-Machine Tools-transport
1280-Miniaturization-freight
1300-barb leader 150-both rivers forested and railed 24 net sheilds.hmmm
1320-freight-contact Persians-pay 200 gold-peace-gift 21 techs--share maps-trade Celts Automobile for Atomic theory
1340-Computers-oil to Madrid 432-Mongols cancel alliance
1360-research lab-Mobile Warfare-disband transport and 1 supported engineer-now I get 2 turns at 60%
1380-factory-pillage road leading into city
1400-Robotics
1420-power plant
1440-Flight
1460-manufacturing plant-Celts gift 50
1480-Radio
1500-offshore platform
1510-Advanced Flight
1530-Rocketry
1550-Space Flight
1570-Plastics
1590-Nuclear Fission-Apollo-disband horseman
1620-Nuclear Power
1650-The Laser
1680-Superconductor
1710-wheat>silk(took forever) 79 sheilds
1750-Fusion Power-sell research lab
1752-sell university
1754-sell library
1756-sell mass transit(should have sold that ages ago)
1762-grass>forest 86 sheilds..kinda late but...
1764-15-3-3 ready-modules are gonna take awhile-disband settler
1768-module#1
1772-module#2-disband elephant and diplomat-use food caravan by switching to wonder-
1774-module#3 LAUNCH
every city defense,barracks,airport,tanks and fighters
1789-ARRIVAL AC

[Caesar]

My spy was captured when she bribed the city that was probably a huge reason for my demise... the only civ I got an embasy with the english, was conquered by the persains