Come! Laugh at an SG!

[La Fayette]

conquest by arii

Really well done.
HG to avoid unhappiness, GW to feel safe at home, Marco to know where 'they' are, LH to get there ...and there we go, with 6 vet crusaders onboard 3 mighty triremes sailing towards the capital, then a few dips able to bribe small cities after taking the capital.
Really well done.
and very low losses (12 crusaders and 2 elephants IIRC).

I modify the tiny Hall of Fame at once:
AC (with caravan rehoming): smash (launch 1530, ETA 1543)
AC (without rehoming): La Fayette (launch 1550, ETA 1578)
Conquest: arii (800)

[arii]

Actually I built the great wall to prevent an AI civ from having it (they were working on it). It was nice also to have instant walls on newly conquered cities.

[DaveV]

Still plodding along:

1340 Tactics discovered. Oil (D) Theveste->Carthage, 320; Silk Saguntum->Carthage, 100; Dye Utica->Carthage, 62; Silk Theveste->Carthage, 92; Dye Alalia->Carthage, 70; Silk Leptis Magna->Carthage, 80. Rushbuy mass transit in Carthage, caravan in Alalia, 44 shields in Utica, caravan in Theveste, 44 shields in Oea, 35 in Malaca, 46 in Leptis Magna, 12 in Gades.
1360 Aztecs steal Chemistry. Atomic Theory discovered. Carthage builds mass transit. Coal (D) Leptis Magna->Carthage, 200; Oil (D) Theveste->Carthage, 315; Salt Malaca->Carthage, 65; Hides Naples->Carthage, 80; Hides Gades->Carthage, 82; Hides Girba->Carthage, 100. Rushbuy 29 shields in Girba.
1380 Machine tools discovered. Oil (D) Utica->Carthage, 215; Oil (D) Alalia->Carthage, 245; Silk Oea->Carthage, 100; Oil (D) Girba->Carthage, 350. Peace with Americans. Add engineers to smaller cities. Rushbuy coastal fortress in Carthage, 2 shields in Cartenna, 28 in Caralis, 23 in Cannae, 14 in Akragas, 33 in Rusucurru, 5 in Rusicade, 33 in Panormus, 47 in Oea, 22 in Naples, 44 in Malaca, 26 in Capua, 14 in Leptis Parva, 32 in Leptis Magna, 46 in Gades.
1400 Genetic Engineering discovered. Carthage builds coastal fortress. Oil (D) Malaca->Carthage, 226; Oil (D) Gades->Carthage, 315; Coal (D) Leptis Parva->Carthage, 225; Oil (D) Oea->Carthage, 374. We demand tribute from Vikings, they declare war. Rushbuy 40 shields in Alalia, 13 in Akragas, 38 in Utica, 26 in Theveste, 2 in Naples, 27 in Girba, 17 in Carthago Nova.
1420 Miniaturization discovered. Dye Utica->Carthage, 62; Silk Girba->Carthage, 105; Silk Leptis Magna->Carthage, 82; Silk Capua->Carthage, 60; Dye Alalia->Carthage, 70; Cloth Cartenna->Carthage, 107; Hides Leptis Parva->Carthage, 90; Hides N->Carthage, 72; Salt Cannae->Carthage, 70; Spice Panormus->Carthage, 62; Silk Theveste->Carthage, 102. Rushbuy caravan in Carthage, 29 shields in Cartenna, 23 in Caralis; 12 in Akragas, 30 in Rusaddit, 43 in Oea, 47 in Malaca, 34 in Leptis Magna, 43 in Gades
1440 Computers discovered. Gold (D) Carthage->Rusicade, 274; Silk (D) Oea->Carthage, 320; Silk (D) Akragas->Carthage, 240; Coal (D) Leptis Magna->Carthage, 210; Hides Gades->Carthage, 95; Hides Rusucurru->Carthage, 90. Add 12 caravans to SETI in Carthage. Rushbuy 29 shields in Cannae, 47 in Alalia, 44 in Utica, 27 in Tingis, 30 in Theveste, 30 in Naples, 44 in Rusicade, 41 in Leptis Parva, 30 in Girba, 30 in Cremona, 29 in Carthago Nova. Taxes to 0/70/30.
1460 Barbs capture Jorvik . Flight discovered. Taxes to 0/80/20, hire two elvii in Carthage. Oil (D) Utica->Carthage, 117; Silk (D) Leptis Parva->Carthage, 143; Oil (D) Naples->Carthage, 128; Oil (D) Girba->Carthage, 190; Oil (D) Alalia->Carthage, 132; Oil (D) Theveste->Carthage, 187; Silk (D) Cremona->Carthage, 110. Rushbuy 30 shields in Capua, 37 in Akragas, 40 in Theveste, 35 in Oea, 47 in Malaca, 30 in Leptis Magna, 40 in Girba, 45 in Gades.
1480 Radio discovered. Silk (D) Leptis Magna->Carthage, 131; Oil (D) Oea->Carthage, 198; Oil (D) Akragas->Carthage, 144; Silk (D) Theveste->Carthage, 160; Silk (D) Girba->Carthage, 163; Silk (D) Malaca->Carthage, 100; Oil (D) Gades->Carthage, 164; Hides Carthago Nova->Carthage, 48; Beads Rusicade->Carthage, 47; Gems Rusaddit->Carthage, 60. Rushbuy 42 shields in Carthage, 32 in Cannae, 33 in Alalia, 50 in Akragas, 30 in Tingis, 40 in Theveste, 41 in Saguntum, 22 in Rusucurru, 44 in Rusicade, 16 in Rusaddit, 40 in Oea, 30 in Naples, 50 in Malaca, 33 in Leptis Parva, 40 in Leptis Magna, 40 in Girba, 29 in Carthago Nova.

[La Fayette]

Dave
Your island, covered with tiny cities and railroads, is very goodlooking ... and I have a feeling that you might be able to lauch in 1560.
That would be 10 years after me, but if your SS is big and powerful your ETA on AC might be sooner than mine.

(La Fayette, completely convinced that this game is fun)

[Carolus Rex]

I finished my game. Seems I messed up the good start, I launched a 15-3-3-1-1-1 (not fusion powered) ship in 1680, estimated arrival 1701.

I have a couple of questions, but let me post my log first.

400 BC-25 BC

400 Masonry (D), medicine or construction?
275 Construction (D), what good is Shake's if I can't grow past 8?
150 Mathematics (D), astronomy or medicine?
100 50 gold in tribute to the Vikings for peace, wine from Malaca to Lindholm (Russian!), (160 gold, in demand)
75 Astronomy (D), wine to Uppsala from Rusicade (270 gold, in demand), salt from Cartenna to Uppsala (in demand, 192 gold)
50 Medicine (D)
25 CO built in Carthage, war with the Russians. They killed a camel… A completely idiotic move by me... They demanded the Republic and got it, then I made the mistake of asking them to withdraw troops (an annoying chariot in my island), they declared war. That camel was home...

40 AD-280 AD

40 Carthage builds Shake’s
60 University (D)
200 Theory of Gravity (D), wool from Leptis Parva to Trondheim (in demand, 192 gold)
240 Carthage reaches size 12 (the other cities are 6-6-5-5-5-5-5)
280 Navigation (D), hides from Carthage to Stony Lake (in demand, 228 gold), Caralis silk to Stony Lake (in demand, 198 gold)

300 AD-420 AD

300 INC built in Carthage
320 The Wheel (D), silk from Cartenna to Killdeer (in demand, 180 gold), silk from Rusicade to Wounded knee (in demand, 228 gold)
360 Engineering (D)
400 Leptis Parva builds Magellan’s
420 Sanitation (D), Panormus silk to Three Forks (in demand, 192 gold), Rusicade silver to Wounded Knee (in demand, 205 gold), beads from Carthage to Little Bighorn (not in demand, 186 gold)

440 AD-580 AD

440 Banking (D), hides from Carthage to Killdeer (in demand, 328 gold), Bridge Building conquered from russian city on my island
480 Invention (D), silk from Leptis Parva to Little Bighorm (in demand, 252 gold)
500 Leptis Parva builds LW
520 Physics (D), gems from Malaca to Stony Lake (in demand, 156 gold)
560 Warrior Code (D), hides from Carthage to Killdeer (in demand, 432 gold), Utica silk to Wounded Knee (in demand, 204 gold)
580 Steam Engine, Panormus silver to Cedar Creek (in demand, 170 gold), Cartenna gold to Little Bighorn (202 gold?)

620 AD-840 AD

620 Chemistry (D), hides from Carthage to Killdeer (in demand, 464 gold), Panormus wine to Big Mound (in demand, 180 gold)
640 Railroad (D)
700 Leptis Parva builds DW, Iron Working (D), Industrialisation (D), Leptis Parva gems to Cedar Creek (180 gold?), Caralis salt to Little Bighorn (67 gold, not in demand), Carthage hides to Killdeer (310 gold, in demand), Caralis spice to Killdeer (66 gold, not in demand), Malaca wine to killdeer (52 gold, not in demand). Got fed up with logging caravans and bonuses!
720 Gunpowder (D)
760 Democracy (D)
800 Magnetism (D)
840 Explosives (D), revolution

860 AD-1140 AD

860 Elected President
880 Metallurgy (D)
920 Economics (D)
940 Corporation (D)
980 Refining (D)
1000 Atomic Theory (D)
1020 Combustion (D)
1060 Electricity (D)
1080 Steel (D)
1120 Automobile (D)
1140 Electronics (D), Carthage builds superhighways

1180 AD-1420 AD

1180 Mass Production (D)
1200 Conscription (D)
1240 Feudalism (D)
1260 Exchanged Chivalry and Leadership with the Sioux
1280 Tactics (D)
1320 Nuclear Fission (D)
1360 Machine Tools (D)
1400 Nuclear Power (D)
1420 Miniaturization (D), uranium from Rusicade to Carthage (232 gold, in demand)

1440 AD-1701 AD

1440 Computers (D)
1480 The Laser (D)
1500 Flight (D)
1520 Theology (D)
1530 Supported a camel by mistake to Panormus, my intention was to put it to sleep
1540 Radio (D) (must have been tired here, the log says "advanced radio" )
1560 Advanced flight (D)
1580 Rocketry (D)
1600 Mobile Warfare (D)
1620 Space Flight (D)
1630 Leptis Parva builds AP
1640 Plastics (D)
1660 Superconductor (D)
1680 Launch, estimated arrival 1701

Carolus

[Carolus Rex]

A couple of questions and things I did wrong.

i) Are 8 camels to get LW in 500 AD only to see it expire in 1120 AD a waste? Should I have traded with them instead?

ii) I think I should have gone for Magnetism before Democracy, and possibly researched it earlier than I did. That would have made an earlier switch to demo possible (caravels -> galleons -> transports, hence no unhappiness caused by roaming ships). Thoughts?

iii) The space ship. It was some time ago that I built one, how much time does a 15-1-1-1-1-1 take? I built a 15-3-3-1-1-1, then I realised that researching Fusion Power for two more turns would mean an arrival of 1715.

iv) I only built libraries (and temples) in the other cities and fairly late. Should they have been built earlier or not at all?

v) I will post a couple of saves later. Would be good (for me) if someone could play one of them, say from 450 BC (where I am set up good) and show me how it should be done.

I think I was a little bit unlucky with the techs available in the end.

Carolus

[Carolus Rex]

I only grew my capitol to size 24 (later, it turned into size 25 the natural way). A mistake?

Should I have grown my other cities past size 8 (meaning I would have had to invest in marketplaces and aqueducts)?

Carolus

[Carolus Rex]

Clarification about unlucky tech choices. Theology + Mobile Warfare + (not obvious from the log) after Superconductor was discovered, there was no Fusion Power to research. If it had been available, then the arrival date would have been 1695.

Carolus

[Carolus Rex]

Also, when I tried to get new supplies of goods by sending food caravans to my own cities nothing happened (even though I minimised trade in both cities). Xin Yu, is it random when it works?

Some saves, including the 450 BC.

Carolus

[Carolus Rex]

More saves.

Carolus

[Carolus Rex]

Not finished yet.

Carolus

[Carolus Rex]

Two to go.

Carolus

[Carolus Rex]

File was too big, had to fiddle (I have no idea what that means!) a bit...

Carolus

[Carolus Rex]

One more question (fairly easy to check, I guess, but I have spent more time on civ and Apolyton this morning than what is good for me ). In 1260 AD, I exchanged techs with the AI and got Chivalry and Leadership.

I suppose it is unnecessary to get both (unless I was researching Chivalry, which I think I was)? If I have Leadership, the tech tree depending on/following it is "open" to me, right?

Carolus

[Edward]

Carolus Rex,

In answer to your last question, yes, "holes" early in your tech tree will not adversely affect the techs available for research.

The techs available for research are only determined by two factors:

1. You can only research techs you have the direct prerequisites for. (i.e. tactics requires leadership and conscription but NOT chivalry (a prerequisite of leadership))

2. All techs fall into one of three groups. (They're divided arbitrarily based on alphabetical order or order in the rules.txt file. The division is the same every game.) Every time you choose a new tech to research, techs in one of the three groups is not available. First, group 1 isn't available. The next time group 2 isn't available, The next time group 3 isn't available. The next time group 1 isn't available again and so on. Obtaining a tech through any means (not just research but also trade, conquering, or huts) will advance the unavailable group.

Basically any given tech will be available 2 times, then unavailable the next time, then be available two times, etc. This was discovered by Oedo. For an in-depth analysis of this, see his "Oedo's Unfinished" or "Next Available" thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HTML/001533.html

Oedo successfully used this knowledge to unerringly predict available techs and thus tighten up his tech tree in the early AC landing contest.

Back to your question, it is possible (and even advisable) to leapfrog techs. You can purposely not research, for example, chivalry so as not to carry a "junk tech" and wait to trade for leadership later. This will NOT affect your choices of techs to research. Of course there are a host of techs you can avoid researching with this strategy and you don't need to know the Oedo rules to do it.