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On the road to becoming an expert: Day 1

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  • On the road to becoming an expert: Day 1

    MAP VISUALIZATION

    As everyone knows, customizing a map will change the way the map looks. 3 billion will make the land less random, while 5 billion will put desert right next to arctic in many cases. So we will already know how the map is going to be generated just by these settings. Everyone also knows that if you click on a dark area or on a water mass or land mass, next to the coordinates will be a number designating it as such. This is all common knowledge. But the question is, how is it useful rather than just telling you if there is a water mass or land mass there? As we all know, exploration is key in the very beginning turns of the game, no matter what setting you play. The decision of whether or not to go left or to go right, to go up or to go down, can be the difference between finding your opponent early on, or allowing him those precious extra turns to gain more ground. Up might lead to a hutless alcove forcing you to turn around and go back over the exact same terrain you came over, while choosing to go down could lead to a nice river filled with huts and on the path to your opponent. In my opinion the decision making in the very first turns of the game are what set the good players apart from the bad players.
    So then, back to the basic question, how does that number tell us where to move, and when to move? Lets take a small map for demonstration. Lets say we start out on the map with land all around us. We build our first city and we now have a warrior to move, but which way? First, click on the land, usually it will be 1. If it is not 1, then your job is that much easier. 1 is the designation of the main land mass (in most cases), and 1 is also the designation of the main water mass (in 99.9% of the time). The land mass number we won't worry about because it is the same as the water mass. We want to know exactly where the main water mass is located. The reason for this is because it is impenatrable. There is no way around it and it determines whether you're on an island or a continent. Water masses designated as 2, 3, 11, etc. will always have a way through them or around them. 63 is always a lake or a really small water mass, maybe no more than 6 squares. This is key knowledge.

    Ex. 1
    You start the game with land all around you, but you are north of the equator. You have just 1 ocean square in your view to the left of you. The rest is land in every direction. Click on the ocean square. If it is 1, then you're going to explore to the east. Don't bother going up, and don't bother going straight down for right now. Leave it black. Those 2 areas are what I call claimed territory. They're areas where your opponent will not be and therefore there is no need to explore at this moment. If you go to the left you'll hit a solid wall of water. You may have just saved yourself 5, maybe 10 turns by going right first instead of exploring the other two areas. Go south east, and go straight east in exploring. But do not explore to the left of your city for now. Keep in mind this is only true on a small map where you'll know for sure they can't be. On a medium map you use the same principles, the difference is that you take into account the amount of space between you and the bottom or top of the map and that the main ocean mass may go for a long ways in both directions. In most cases though you'll be able to tell if there is sufficient land to harbor an opponent.
    Ex2.
    This time we'll talk using a medium map. Medium maps are more complicated and require knowing the other land masses. First click on your own land mass. To make things easier we'll say it's land mass 2. That means you'll actually be able to tell where the coastline is. Your start position puts you next to a water mass designated 19. First click around and determine 3 things:
    1. How close is the next nearest land mass? How big is it?
    2. Click around a ways out, do you see 2 a long ways out into the unexplored area? HOw far out? Can you determine the coastline of your continent? HOw far does it extend in each direction, and what is your position with respect to the equator? North or south?
    3. How big is water mass 19?

    Now you've gone ahead and answered these questions. There is no land mass near you, 2 extends a long long ways around the world (good news for you, you're on the main land mass), you determine that the coastline is goes a ways to the east, but even further to the west. You are situated south of the equator and water mass 19 goes a long ways to the west. Now, the questions is, north, south, east, or west? Obviously not south because that territory is claimed. You know the land to the east hits water mass 1 which means that is possibly claimed territory as well. At this point you need to answer another question: How many players are in this game? If there are alot of players, you could very well have an opponent to your east, but more likely northeast. However you are assured there are opponents to your west, but how far out is water mass 19? The next thing you need to determine is:

    1. How much land is to the south of 19, and how much land is to the north of 19?
    2. Go ahead and begin determining its coastline.

    We'll say in this case you are very lucky. There is much more land south of 19 than there is north of 19. Now we know where to go. We're going to send the first horseman west, the second horseman is going to go north east to confirm the claimed terrirtory.

    If you use these ideas on a small map, I guarantee you will claim half the map and be on your opponent with in the first 5-10 turns of the game or even sooner. If you use this on a medium map you will definitely have an edge over everyone else and be able to claim much more land than and huts.
    Last edited by Guest; September 5, 2001, 12:45.

  • #2
    Another "civ hunting" technique used on med or larger board where 1 represents the main ocean is triangulation.
    Begin by clicking aroung the cont you start on to get an idea of the shape.
    Next, move a unit into the largest area of the cont since it is most likely that if any enemy civ is on your cont that is where they most likely will be.
    City guiding is common knowledge , going to city screen and clicking on supported unit and the computer will tell you the closest city. Now as you move farther down into this area you will reach the "mid way point" and now you can triangulate and be asured that no enemy civ is in that area.
    To triangulate, You count the number of squares back to your closest city as listed on the city screen. Now count an equal number of squares in all other directions , and if you hit 1 ( the ocean) in all directions, then without uncovering many squares you have eliminated that area from being infested by other civs
    By doing this in all directions you can determine very fast with just a few wariors that you are alone on your own cont or not which is extremly valuable info concerning turning on the settler factory or producing horseman to control and defend territory.
    This , of course assumes the closest city is your own.
    If it is another civs city, you can guide to it if it is on your own cont.
    Or if it is not, by clicking around in the ocean, look , again in that mid range, for a large cont where the other civ has to be.
    Then you know what cont # the other civ is on and can use that info very positively.

    Comment


    • #3
      Forgive me, we must all enjoy this game as much as possible, but surely clicking on the black to investigate the shape of your continent is against the spirit of the game - if you want to start with a known map - do so - there are many to choose from, if you want a spirit of discovery, don't ruin it by 'illicit' means - all my own opinion of course ...
      "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
      "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit

      Comment


      • #4
        Gee, on a small map, just check out your x,y coordinates. If you're near the west end head east. If you're in the east, head west. Occasionally the land (a narrow strip) will wrap around the 0 line but that is the exception. If you're north veer south. It takes less time and I don't have to click to death. AND when you're hosting, and clicking unexplored areas, it doesn't always give you the real number, sometimes it always shows a "1". Every turn you have to check to see if it's showing the true number.

        On a small map, I usually just head for the middle of the map to either meet or claim the area before someone else does. Unless I start in the middle, then I will use some of the techniques previously posted to find the corner that no one started in.


        On a medium/larger map, the land/water mass numbers have more value.

        I'm more interested in hearing about the "DEMO" search routine.


        RAH
        It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
        RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

        Comment


        • #5
          You do what you want, I think I know a little bit more about this than you do.

          Comment


          • #6
            There is nothing wrong about clicking around. For instance, if you start on a small cont with no other cont visible , what my question to you is what do you do, just wait for navigation or build the light house or risk death blindly? The game will be over before you ever get off your cont so why play? By finding where the other conts are near by, thats an equalizer that will make more games fair. Also it will seperate the skilled from the unskilled. (+ if you risk death and succeed, if some one saves and sees later your ship out in the middle of the water, assuming it went the wrong way and did not sink, you could be called a cheater do to the ending your turn while there are still ships left to move cheat)

            Comment


            • #7
              Gotta win at all costs

              Determinig the shape of a continent before even moving at all......how dull......

              This is what makes a player skilled strategicfool? Nope. Following a formula game after game only shows a lack of creativity and genuine thinking.....anyone can learn these dull formulas, but its such a bore.....why not just play civ?
              I see the world through bloodshot eyes
              Streets filled with blood from distant lies.

              Comment


              • #8
                I'll let strat do the battling for whether it is legal or not. As for myself, it's in the game, it's part of the game, just like looking to see what city you're near in the unit screen. Live with it. I'll post the demographics strategy tomorrow Rah, but it's nothing you haven't seen before.

                Comment


                • #9
                  EG, what do you do when blind clicking doesn't show the true number and always shows "1"?

                  RAH
                  It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                  RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by EnigmaticGod
                    You do what you want, I think I know a little bit more about this than you do.
                    Are you Eyes' less-annoying DL? This stinks of the nonsense he bragged about in the GL discussion thread. Rah sums it up well.

                    D'accord with the others. If I want to know the shape of the continent I'm on, I'll send out some units to explore. But then, I happen to be one of those amateurs who plays to have fun.
                    The first President of the first Apolyton Democracy Game (CivII, that is)

                    The gift of speech is given to many,
                    intelligence to few.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I am really hoping this kind of stuff is fixed in Civ 3. The black part of the map is supposed to be terra incognita - you only know the parts your units have passed through. Otherwise, why not do as SG1 said - reveal the whole map from the outset. For me, a big part of the fun of the game lies in the tension of pushing into the unknown. Having to act on limited information is, I think, an integral part of the experience.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Come on, give the guy a break, this thread is a far cry from his usual annoying posts. If you don't want to use all or bits and pieces of the information that's posted here, don't do it. I don't do what EG has laid out here to anywhere near the degree he apparently does, but I sure as hell click on the dark areas at the beginning of my MP games to try to figure out where the oceans (and therefore the other civs) are. The problem, of course, is as rah notes -- the numbers don't always work, and in fact seem to work no more than half the time.

                        Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting that it is inappropriate to comment on whether this is a “feature” that should be eliminated, but I don’t think threads like this should be belittled or discouraged in what is, after all, a strategy forum. You never know what useful nuggets of information will turn up in these things.
                        "I think the advantages by the proposal which I have made are obvious and many, as well as of the highest importance."
                        Jonathan Swift

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The numbers are never wrong. If you get a wrong number it's because you clicked wrong or you interpreted them wrong. There is always a 1 for land mass and a 1 for water mass. So on a small map you won't be able to tell the difference between water and land, but you will be able to tell if it is the main water mass or not. ANd Rah, the 0 line isn't always the water line. Which means you have a chance for error. This way there is no chance for error, it is 100% sure.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            EG, NO IT DOESN"T ALWAYS WORK.

                            Bird two posts above stated the same thing. I've played over 1000 MP games, I think I know what I'm talking about. Some turns it works and others it doesn't. Trust me, I check to see if it's working every early turn in an MP game to do the things you've been discussing, BUT IT DOESN"T ALWAYS WORK. I've had games where it didn't work for the first 10 turns.

                            Yes I agree that 0 isn't always a water line, (I even stated as much in an earlier post.) But the expection is usually a narrow band. Granted that will give you the access to the other side.
                            But this occurs quite less often than 0 being the water line.

                            I've been hoping to glean new info here, but sadly, nothing new.

                            Rich
                            It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                            RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well rah I'm sorry to hear that but I have played in games with you and you certainly don't explore very well. Second of all you are doing something wrong, I have been playing this game way longer than you have and I have played many more games on ALL the settings. If it doesn't work for you you did something wrong, plain and simple. If you feel you know more than I do, then there is no point in you reading this because you have obviously advanced far beyond my comprehension. Have a nice life.

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