sabotaging units

[Thoth]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer


Only reason to sabotage is that you can't buy (price too high or unit from democracy). .

If you're playing a Democracy and don't want to switch to Commie, sabotaging is a great way to get veteran spies. It can be done in peacetime, and doesn't immediately start a war.

[fittstim]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer

Only reason to sabotage is that you can't buy (price too high or unit from democracy).

I would add a second reason but I generally agree with your initial supposition. If your spy has only a partial move left, is adjacent to an enemy offensive unit and the chance to move away from the enemy unit is iffy, then sabotage is one way to (hopefully) get your spy out of danger.

There are many reasons why you might not want to bribe the enemy unit in question with the spy's remaining move even if you have enough gold. The bribed unit becomes attached to the nearest city and this can often cause a (dem/rep) city to riot and takes shield resources away from the city as well.

[Marquis de Sodaq]

OT - helicopters

Ecthelion, helicopters are very useful on large archipelago maps. Building a fleet of carriers to haul your fighters and bombers across a wide sea can be slow. The helicopters just shoot across the water, then pump lead into your distant neighbors. If you attack from an ocean square, only a ship can attack you. Altho limited, they do have some use.

[Blaupanzer]

As in the real world, the economics of war is different than the economics of peace. In war in the game, a unit at the point of attack is worth substantially more than a unit two or three transport moves away. Plus you didn't have to use any precious shields on that unit. In the real world, items become priced in terms of resources, rather than money. This because resources are limited, and the money only has value if you win.

I don't buy or sabotage units in my territory; I kill them. I do the two activities in their territory. In Fundamentalism (or Communism) as defined in the game, money is cheap, and transportation can take years.

La Fayette, have a degree in economics myself. Used to do economic mobilization analysis during the cold war. Now, I design databases. Picked up a Masters degree in European Economic History along the way.

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer
La Fayette, have a degree in economics myself. Used to do economic mobilization analysis during the cold war. Now, I design databases. Picked up a Masters degree in European Economic History along the way.

Congratulations, herr doktor!

[Blaupanzer]

Originally posted by La Fayette

Congratulations, herr doktor!

Thank you. Point was, though, that economic analysis (gold versus shilds) is only part of the point. Marginal value of the unit to be bribed is increased because: a) it is at the front, b) it will be a none, and c) it takes none of your own shields. These are offset to some degree if: a) the player has control of the seas -- allowing ship chains, b) the player is in a government that doesn't care if units are away from home, and c) if money is a shortage item to a greater degree than shields. If the second set of restrictions apply, a little sabotage never hurts. Of course the best bribed units come from bribed cities.

Did I just read that sabotaging units does not create an incident leading to a declaration of war?

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer

Did I just read that sabotaging units does not create an incident leading to a declaration of war?

I don't remember any incident of that kind (but haven't tested thoroughly)

(a small group of economists discussing economy in civ2)

[Thoth]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer
Did I just read that sabotaging units does not create an incident leading to a declaration of war?

That is correct. However, don't be too suprised if you get sneak attacked shortly afterwards.

[Blaupanzer]

Very interesting that an act of terrorism in the field doesn't lead to war! As Thoth points out, it does bear the same risks as bribing a unit or a city at the "no incident" price. Still, this is useful when a stack of AI units occupies one of your forts (built by the previous owners; I only build forts I will occupy) during a cease fire. Reduces the subsequent effectiveness of those units in the inevitably reinitiated war.