Play from the same start position, compare results

[My Wife Hates CIV]

Is peeking or restarting ok? I know it's from the same start position... but you know if battles are lost and such.

[Scouse Gits]

I usually build the Hoover Dam - but obviously can't in this game. I have electronics and a factory in one of my cities, but there is no option to build a Hydro Plant - only the pollution causing Power Plant which I don't want.

Do you have to build the Power Plant first? It's such a different game without wonders!
(Playing 2.42)
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SG (2)

[Paul]

Here are two requests to people who want to send me their saved games from this challenge:

1. Please send me a zip containing all your saves after you finish the game. If you send me the saves in several smaller packages I would just get a whole bunch of zips and would lose track of it.

2. Please put your Apolyton username in the name of the zip. That makes it easier for me to keep track of the various zips I will be receiving.

[Smash]

I don't think it is that the wonders are over rated(remember the ai couldn't build them either) more that they are great time savers. But the game is playable and win-able without them.And, it is very educational to play without them.Near the end I HAD to sell off sewers to keep from celebrating up in size at 10% luxuries

[Aurelius]

Smash,
I tried the 3 city strategy after the fact--did really well. Oh, and your right about the wonders being useful to the AI. In fact, part of the excitement of an OCC game is making sure you get Copernicus or Darwins before AI. Also, nothing worse than the AI getting Hoover and Seti in a close OCC game...at least we don't have to worry about that in this version.

Going back to your three city approach, I managed three cities up to size 28 without going above 10% luxury. Two of my cities were at size 26, but the capital with the Spice was 28. Also built anti-pollution for all three cities and managed a 50+shield output for two cities and a 80+ shield for one city. Three cities was much easier to implement too....hate to see Paul's results....But with a second chance, using V2.42 and OCC Trade principles and OCC Science giveaway, I managed 1896 AC. All three cities had three early trade routes and near the end, each trade route averaged 20+ trade contribution. Science was over or around 900 beakers at 10% luxury.

Thoroughly enjoyed the second attempt--no 6 turn bouts with Anarchy

AU

[CrispyCritter]

Zulu Spaceship landed.

I played an expansionist isolationist strategy! I expanded to the nearby islands, but had as little to do with the neighbors as possible. This meant
No diplo/spy
No trading for techs or asking tribute.
No attacks on enemy territory (I counterattacked their units on my islands.)

I did allow myself to dump caravans on their cities for trade, though that didn't last for all that long (they kept on sneak attacking my triremes/caravans). I don't know how to avoid that in MGE, any suggestions?

I ended up with 13 cities (had 14 but 1 got conquered mid-game). The Indians built Apollo, but I was able to rush-build the spaceship and landed in 1916.

I was never able to get Paul's unzipped version of the scenario to work, but the zipped version worked fine when I eventually tried it. I've mailed my saved games to Paul, though unfortunately they're not at as regular of intervals as I would have liked!

It will be interesting seeing what people did. Thanks for starting this off, DaveV!

[Steve Clark]

English clobbered. Only a few turns from Gunpowder, then I'll start clobbering all those size 8 French cities.

[Tom DeMille]

An interesting game. Played in Deity v242.

I followed an OCC strategy with this one, and landed on AC in 1801. I've forwarded my saves (as close to 20 turn intervals as I could remember at the time) and a log to Paul, but here are a few comments on the game.

- I formed an alliance with all AI civs on the first turn, and kept the alliances the whole game. In fact, there was not one battle fought, even between the AIs. I thought I should get a 600 point bonus for peace, but it seems to max out at 33. Without barbarians, I disbanded all defensive units when I switched to Republic.

- The AIs grew a lot faster on this medium map than they do on a small map. Unlike the usual 6 or 7 techs that the AI researches ahead of me in a typical OCC game, the AI researched 39 techs (which I got through trade) ahead of me.

- I built 6 cities fairly early on, and expanded to 10 cities by the end of the game. In retrospect, I would have been better off with the 6 cities (I got the first 6 cities up to size 21, except for my capital which reached 32).

- Since I didn't want to fight pollution all game, I decided to not build any factories. My capital had a production of 19, with the other cities ranging from 7 to 13 production. I rush bought most improvements instead of producing them. I wasn't able to build as many improvements as I would have liked, but I was getting a science every two turns later in the game, which is all that really counts when going for AC.

[Paul]

One request to people who mail me their saves: please tell me which version of Civ2 you have used.

[KhanMan]

First off, I'd like to start a big round of applause for DaveV...I don't know about the rest of you, but I really enjoyed this challenge.

Do you think we could make this into a tradition, like the OCC? Say NWC for No Wonders Challenge?

Also, I'm curious how Dave managed to get the Romans to disappear with all the wonders...was it a 0-size city, or barbs, or what?

I played 5-cities on the rock, all ports, almost exclusive perfectionist, with occasionally colonizing a new continent. I played prince (yeah, I'm a wimp , but it kind of evens out, since I didn't think to check the contacts until I met the French (around 1 AD if memory serves me right), so I lost big-time of tech trading.

Went republic, headed straight for democracy. Alternated max science possible to get a critical tech with max tax-rate to buy marketplaces, temples, aquaducts...I had most of my cities maxed out, or in WLTP days by around 500 AD.

Met the french and indians, set up a toehold on the western edge of indian's continent. They would occasionally attack me (ha! elephants charging uphill into the rain of musketballs from veteran musketeers, fortified behind city walls), and each time they attacked, I bribed a city away before the senate stepped in.

It came down to me and the Delhi-roadblock. It was their capital, so no bribing. My forces died a couple of noble deaths, with dips trying to knock down the walls of Jerricho, and dragoons bouncing off.

In short order, around 1580, I decided to screw my pacifist tendancies, and went fundie the turn I got tactics. Built hordes of dips and calvalry, and beat the pants off of gandhi!



Next were the french, then the persians, then the english, last the egyptians.

I set things up so that I'd show up by their continent with two transports (2 dips and 6 calvary on each), each transp. by a port city. I'd bribe the two ports, land the troops, and and take at least two other cities with the dips and cavalry.

This way, it would take, on average, two turns (first for landing and attack, second for mop up) to take any given continent.

The egyptians perished in 1760, just 180 years after the high priest started up da wompin'...

In hindsight, there is a lot that I would have done differently: going fundie sooner, acknowledging the other civs' existance before 1 AD, and a couple o' other dings...but t'was fun, and I'm going back to play more...

By the way-do I send the saved files for every ten years, or was it every twenty? Saved for both...

-KhanMan
"Sic semper pax mundis,
et sic transit bellum mundi ad infinitum
(quad erratta demonstrata

[Scouse Gits]

Landed AC in 1922. It would have been an easier game if I had realised there was a ready-made contact system with the other civs. By the time I’d discovered this I was “supreme” – so alliances were only offered (despite donating an Encarta of tech to Egypt) if I declared war on half the World: playing Republic, then Democracy, this seemed a poor option. Later in the game I was forced into war (gave me an excuse to build a few battleships!) but managed to avoid any serious assault on my home patch. (The Navy sank a few suspicious looking transports – one from Egypt stuffed with units – no I don’t think they were freights!)

The basic empire was four cities on the Zulu continent. Three more were situated on the island to the north, and a further three on the islands to the south-east. I held one city for a time on the Indian continent, until the French nuked me out. (Well it was BANGalore!) There was me thinking no Manhattan Project – no nukes - ahhhhhhh! In some ways the game was easier without the wonders, but I did miss Magellan’s, as caravan delivery seemed very slow!

The game was great fun. It was the first scenario I’ve tackled. Never played a green civ before – each time I looked at the map, I thought I’d been wiped out. Next time I will press all the buttons at 4000BC to make sure that mobile warfare doesn’t come with polytheism!
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SG (2)

[Paul]

I also didn't notice the contact with the other civs until I met the Indians

Also, I have put the saves I have recievd so far on my site. You can find them at http://home.planet.nl/~belt0018/chal0300.htm

Tom included a log with his saves; I have also put that on my site. I don't know if all the other players have kept logs; if you did please send them with the saves. Those of you who already sent me their saves can also mail me their logs. Text or html logs are preferred because you can just read those in your browser.

[vik]

Alpha Centauri, 1947 -- One City.

Diety Level
"vik the Foolish"
Civilization score: 27
Civilization rating: 3%

This was extremely hard to try to do the OCC thing, but I tried it anyways.

I realized pretty quickly that all the grassland would make finding the 4-square special hard to find. But I guessed right the first time. Unfortunately, I had to put my single city in a land-locked square, but I hi-jacked a Trireme later.

I didn't know until after I started that there were no wonders. That REALLY hurts OCC-style of play.

I also didn't know we already had contact with everyone else. That also really hurst OCC-style.

I did do something some might consider cheating. After launching my SS in 1931, I played out the game only to witness the egyptians practically rush-buy a 39-8-8-1-1-1 SS and launch it. It was due to arrive in 1947 as my SS was, but when 1947 came around, it only acknowledged the Egyptians.

So I reloaded my 1931 game, launched the SS, and built a bunch of diplos to sabotage Egyptian production. It worked.

If we continue to do this sort of competition, I would suggest allowing the wonders, and playing a small map. That way, you will get a broader group of playing styles. As it is now, you're not getting the best effort. An OCCer is just as hampered by no wonders as the other extreme -- the ICSer. ICSers need Hanging Gardens as bad as us OCCers need Colossus.

Just a thought. It was still lots of fun as is.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by vik (edited March 02, 2000).]</font>
[This message has been edited by vik (edited March 02, 2000).]

[Scouse Gits]

Vik - well done! Those were tough conditions for OCC.

I must disagree about the map. Next time I hope we have a large world, with wonders, so we have the option of ICS.
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SG (2)

[KhanMan]

Vic-IMHO, what you did wasn't cheating, since both of your space ships landed the same year.

Although I have to disagree: this challenge was cool because there weren't any wonders. If you want a OCC challenge, why not try save-the-whales, or one of the millions of other ones.



-KhanMan
"Paidaskuneisin Dios Achilleus, auton te elisan!"