Prevent them to escape.

[fittstim]

Originally posted by shade
You know what's really funny:when I take over the capital as the Americans(that's the nation I play) then they just move their capital,wen I take over their capital with the Egyptians( 3rd powerfull nation but has only like 10 cities ,when Mongols have 50) then they split always????

Wow!!! I was surprised that nobody picked up on this. Could it be that part of the problem is that in order for a civ to split, it has to be ranked HIGHER, not necessarily #1, than the attacking civ?

Presumably this all depends on the "PowerGraph rankings".

Anyone figure this out yet?

[Blaupanzer]

Seems to be relative to the number of cities of the splitter and the splitee. If the nation whose capitol you take has more cities than you, it splits. The old part may still move the palace. Must have fewer than 7 civs in play. The city proportion is actually more than just "more cities." It's more like 1.5 to 1 or greater, but I don't know the exact ratio. I have been supreme with 12 cities and split the number 3 nation on the power graph which had 21 cities. The split was very disproportionate, 4 to the new and 16 to the old (with one to me, of course). (This happened over a year ago so not all details are still clear.)

[shade]

the number of cities doesn't matter.
Did a test this afternoon
me(american,something like 50Cities)
Mongol(something like 50 cities but more than me)
using the cheat mode i used the mongols to take over my capital+>imediate split
I think it might be caused by the civscore (me 1400,mongol 799)

when the country splits all cities within a circular radius of (i don't know how much) stay the other change.

Shade

[The Andy-Man]

but what is the deciding factor?
shorley sid meirer has said something about it!

[La Fayette]

Taking Berlin

I came to remember that there was a lot of civ splitting during the ww2 scenario with smaller civs, and I just checked what happened when taking Berlin. Amazing! Look!

1) With the Spaniards:
The Axis is number 2 on the powergraph (Russians number 1)
Axis=24 cities; Spain=17 cities; Axis civ splits.

2) With the Turks:
The Axis is number 2 on the powergraph (Russians number 1)
Axis=17 cities; Turks=15 cities; Axis civ doesn't split.

3) With the French:
The Axis is number 2 on the powergraph (Russians number 1)
Axis=25 cities; French=25 cities; Axis civ splits.
Axis capital moved to Dresden. French take Dresden on the same turn. Axis civ splits again! (giving us a renewed Aztec civ in eastern Europe ).

In short, this shows that a lot of research remains to be done in that field. The idea I had in mind about a civ being number 1 on the powergraph was wrong. Relative number of cities also seems to be quite questionable. And the result of my second blow on Dresden remains to be explained.

Open your labs, folk!
Hit the head! Make them split!
And tell us why!

[The Andy-Man]

have a look at these factors then:

Military strength,
Happiness,


perhaps its a string of events that cause the split. like, not only do you take the capital, but you have to have done something else to them in that turn?

[Edward]

La Fayette,

Perhaps the second Axis split (upon the capture of Dresden yielding the Aztecs) happened because splitting is based on the civ's "power" at the beginning of the turn.

Also, I like Andy-Man's "happiness" suggestion. Regardless of how it really works, it certainly makes sense that a less happy civ would be more likely to have a civil war.

[shade]

I think the 2 factors of Andy-Man can be rulled out

Americans(me)( nr1 ,little 50 cities ,200 Mongols(nr2 , big 50 cities(more then me),army >350,score 799)
Egypt(nr3, 6 or 7 cities,army <100,score ???)

Egypt splits me and mongols
mongols split me
I can't split mongols.
=> by by army factor
=>there are no cities in the world unhappy

Shade
PS:I think maybe score should be considered.

[shade]

(I accidently posted this on the civ split thread,oeps )
Did some serious testing this afternoon and here are some conclusions:
taker=country that takes the capital
haver=country that has the capital
1)The haver does not have to be NR1 on the power graph but he has to be placed higher than the taker
NR2 only splits NR1
NR3 splits NR1 and NR2
...
2)The absoluet number of cities of the haver and taker don't seem to be important.
A 45 city empr DOES NOT split the 50 city empr (*)
A 50 city empr splits a 45 city empr
A 6 city empr splits a 50 city empr and a 45 city empr
A 2 city empr splits a 6 city empr, 45 city empr and 50 city empr

my best gues is that it has something to do with the score
45 city empr=> 1497 pt (*)
50 city empr=> 635 pt (*)
6 city empr=> 96 pt
2 city empr=> 36 pt
Although I couldn't verify this using the cheat mode to increase the score of some empr's=> is this caused by the cheat i don't know.

any ideas???

shade:banned:

[Blaupanzer]

How do you know what the point value is for each civ? I know the power graph is point based, but I've not seen any place where the total is displayed for each civ. Or is this the civ score? That is not the same as the powergraph point basis.

[shade]

I used the civ score.
the power graph is limited and would give me an inconsistency
Me and the Mongols have reached the top of the powergraph we can't go higher => I guess this means we have the same power graph points( or isn't this so,because it's just a logical guess)
The Mongols can split my empire but i can't split theirs.
If you look at the civ score then I am number one and they are number 2.
I'm just guessing like anyone else.

Shade

[The Andy-Man]

so it looks like it is a cros between civ score and postition on PG.

I am always number one on both

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by shade
(
any ideas???

shade:banned:

One idea:
Contrary to general opinion (including my own opinion) a few days ago, your results confirm what my 'taking Berlin' had shown: namely the 'haver' doesn't need to be number 1 on the powergraph + the number of cities owned by the 'haver' and the 'taker' is not (or not completely) relevant.
'Capital must be taken' remains true.
'Less than 7 civs' remains true.
'Haver stronger than taker' seems to be true.
There remains to discover what is precisely used to measure the relative strength of the 'haver' and the 'taker'.
Thank you for your testing, shade.

[connorkimbro]

Interesting thread.

I've played civ2 since the day it came out, and i have NEVER seen a split in civ2. I saw it in civ1 often. . but never have in civ2. odd.

to tell you the truth, i thought that maybe it couldn't happen in civ2. ya learn something new every day.

[fittstim]

more info on splits

It's sort of bizarre that the rules seem to change depending on either the number of civs or the number of turns passed. But I did figure out a couple of things.

1) Of course, there needs to be an open civ spot. Thus, a civ will NEVER split if there are 7 active civs.

2) In order to "Move capital" a civ has to have a minimum of 1000 gold. Or some minimum of gold - it was always 1000 gold in the wwII.scn I was play testing on at Emperor level. Thus, 1000 would make the capital move, while 999 would cause a split.

3) There has to be a city of at least half the size of the capital (rounded down) or a minimum of size 8, for a capital to move. With Moscow size 21 and Leningrad size 10, the capital would move - but if Moscow was 22 or Leningrad 8, the civ would split.

There seems to be some connection between the order of the city's establishment and the size of the city as to which city becomes the new capital. Difficult to figure out just now.

4) With respect to the splitting civ, the most distant cities will become a part of the new civ. However, the number of cities assigned to each civ is based on the size of the cities. With 10 size 1 cities, the civ split 5-5; with 2 size 8 (nearest to each other)and 8 size 1 cities, the civ split 2-8 with all of the size 1 cities becoming the new civ.

However, as I hinted to above, the rules about spliting/moving didn't always work. When there is one large civ (artificially created by me) and all of the other ones are small, then the large civ will ALWAYS split. There was nothing I could do to make the capital move. Strange but I was getting too frustrated to continue trying to work it out. Maybe later...