New landing: 76 AD

[solo]

samson,

A very informative and fascinating analysis, as I was not aware of the full cost of carrying unneeded techs before the discovery of Railroad. Note that if I had just held off trading for Pottery and Warrior Code for a few more turns each, I could have skipped them and traded directly for Seafaring and Iron Working. This is hindsight, however, because there was no way to know that the discovery of both Searfaring and IW by the AI were imminent. I was also afraid of being presented with short lists of unwanted techs to pick from during this period. If only my AI had learned a little faster or I had been a tad more patient!

Still, in spite of this difference, I think your move to bypass Monarchy was still enough to gain an edge in the race to Railroad. In several OCC games, bypassing Monarchy has also proven to be the fastest way to get to AC, so congratulations on this refinement and for the overall success of skipping over unneeded techs until they could be comfortably carried.

As for rehoming, I believe if I had used it after Flight, I might have been able to launch 5 or 6 turns earlier, since I had plenty of freights within reach of Carthaginian cities at that time. If rehomed, these freights that would have only brought in a little over 100g each would have yielded 700+ gold, a huge difference:
a few more 2 tech turns and much more gold for making the ship.

Again, thanks for the time and effort you put into the comparative analysis. It was quite effective and impressive in illustrating the points you wanted to make, much more so than just a log of your game.

solo

[Scouse Gits]

Thank you samson and solo for another very interesting thread.

The problem of the unwanted techs in the early game has been well illustrated. I always seem to find Warrior Code in the first few huts!

To combat this I have tried setting my science rate to zero before opening villages - prior to Monarchy! Some limited success - gold does seem a little more common with taxes at 60%. I have not tested the theory enough to claim anything more than a placebo

---------------

SG(2)

[samson]

Solo,

Re: rehoming.

Yes, if either of us had committed to rehoming caravans from the start we could easily have saved many turns. However, that wasn't my point. The rehoming I did was very limited, six freights that arrived after Flight. I was only saying that this little bit of rehoming didn't affect my research significantly.

I was also afraid of being presented with short lists of unwanted techs to pick from during this period.

This is where my pre-planned tech path helped me. By using Oedo's research I knew what all the available techs would be in advance and how a trade or hut-tip would effect my choices. The only "short list" that I got stuck with was at the end of the game when I had to trade for Pottery.

Although it may not be apparent in the comparison of tech choices, the path I used was "short-list safe". Further, it was designed to delay certain key techs like Wheel, Seafaring, and Iron Working to allow the AI as much time as possible to research them. With a pre-planned tech path (and the knowledge to recalculate and adjust it as the game progressed) I knew how long I could wait for the AI. Also, the more time that passed the more the SSC was capable of carrying a 'junk tech' without losing turns, in case I had to take WC in order to do IW myself.


SG,

Thanks. Interesting idea - zeroing science to reduce the chance or getting a tech from huts. Must try that.

[solo]

samson,

You are right about rehoming being insignificant in your game, as all of the research (and the lead it provided) was essentially done by the time you used it.

It may also be that your AI were faster researchers due to the fact that they had Republic early as a gift from you (my assumption) and without the slower Monarchy to pick from, they might have switched to Republic earlier than they did in my game where many were content to stay in Monarchy. Another reason to bypass Monarchy, I think.

Scouse Gits,

This is very interesting, the idea of a relationship between the tax, science and luxury settings and the hut outcomes. Well worth some intensive testing just to see.

[Marquis de Sodaq]

As one of the slower players still trying to net a pre-1750 landing, this comparison provided some good insights. Previous logs usually stated only what was built or discovered when. How and why remained conjecture to the not-so-knowledgeable.

This burst the bubble on what I suspect are the key starting points for novice early landing efforts. I've made the mistake of always rushing to monarchy first, then trading techs with the AI. Instead, it appears racing for republic and only gifting techs will be a good starting strategy. Thanks!

I'll post my 18AD landing log tomorrow...

[samson]

I did give away Republic to all and that may have been a factor in AI research. I also gave Bronze Working to all who had Warrior Code and Maps to all who had Pots. And while I did get Iron Working much sooner than you did, your AI came up with Wheel and Seafaring a bit faster. Also, my AI had to research Monarchy on their own and never had time to get Feudalism.

I think Republic first is a good choice in this game, and maybe for any early landing attempt. But you had cut my lead down to 2 turns by the time we each had 19 techs. And our endgames were almost the same. It was the period I called "Race to Railroad" where I outresearched you. Whether my theory of what led to that difference is correct or not, it's still the period that needs the most scrutiny. It's when our choices of key techs, sequence of Wonder building, and SSC development were all made.

Anyway, we sure squeezed a lot out of that one start. It was fun.