AC Strategy

[Scouse Gits]

Thanks SS - the 'hidden specials' are new to me

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Steve Clark]

That was new to me too. So I tried that as a test in cheat mode, one of the corners of the X is a forest, thus can't mine. The other corner was a plains, mined it into a forest but no special. Sten, again I appreciate your insights, it really helps

By the way, my science city is not the one with the whale and pheasant, too many forests and not enough water (that is my production city though). My science city is on an ocean inlet with a silk. No other specials are to be found.

I need to start thinking about building a defensive wall around my territory. I'm holding off discovering Gunpowder for fear of upgrading my pikemen to musks but I need Engineers though. Given that, what would be the best units to build and man the forts at this point in the game?

[DaveV]

Why are you "afraid" of your pikemen turning into musketeers? Muskies are much the superior unit. A non-vet musketeer is equivalent to a vet pike against horses, but twice as good against 1-square movement units. Not to mention that the musketeer is the equivalent of a catapult on offense. And the musketeer can turn into a veteran...

I know SS said this, but I'll repeat: the only type of terrain where a hidden special can appear is grassland.

[Sten Sture]

BTW - johnmcd, Steve has Leo's so he doesn't have to build anything to get the upgraded units; just has to research the tech. If I don't have Leo's I will do as you recommend and wait to build a better unit until I need it, if at all.

[Steve Clark]

DaveV/Sten: Thanks for the reminder, I had forgetten that Sten said mining grasslands for specials. If I have plains or forest and transform them to a grassland with an engineer, and then mine them, could a special still appear?

johnmcd/Sten: Folks have talked about the downside to Leo as the loss of veteran status. In this game, most of the units are not at veterans so it's no loss. However, I'm wondering (conceptually) if the cost of Leo outweighs the benefits in a peaceful game. For the 400 or 600 shields in cost, I can instead selectively choose to upgrade only a handful of units are a far cheaper cost. That is assuming one can stay out of a war.

It sounds like I should go ahead and get Gunpowder (gotta get to Explosives) and use Musks as defense. I know someone did the analysis, but I forgot the results. Is a musk with its 3 defense better than a pikemen with its x2 against mounted units, assuming both behind a wall or fort?

[valmont]

Specials appear on the map according to a pattern that is determined when the map is created. Specials appear on all terrain types except grassland, but the underlying pattern is part of the map file. Because of the way terrain is distributed, grassland squares often lie in positions where a special would appear if it were a different type of terrain. If a forest or plain square is capable of yielding a special, it will be seen on the square from the outset. If this seems confusing, spend about an hour playing with the Map Editor. Don't try to make a usable map, just get to know the pattern of the specials. Experiment with changing the value in the "Set Resource Seed" box. When you learn to recognize the pattern, you can determine which grassland squares will yield specials if they are transformed to other terrain types.

[geofelt]

The key is a fort or walls. Fortified behind walls, a musketeer will match anything up to cannon or cavalry. In a fort, they can stop anything less. For the most part, the upgrade to riflemen is all you need. Because of this, I love the GW.

[johnmcd]

Sten, I don't know if I am disapointed or pleased! but it is always good to agree.

Steve, just in case Valmont's reply wasn't clear enough, if a special is there it will come up first time so there is no point occilating a tile between grassland and plain waiting for a special. I am inclined to agree with your fear about Leo's being a waste of shields in a peaceful game. It does let you build up your infrastructure uninterupted by the need to upgrade your defences which is a good thing, but I find it most useful for upgrading my settler army to engineers overnight. Actually, I find the most annoying aspect of Leo's is that it destroys my museums. I like to collect one of every unit in one of my cities for my people to marvel at, and it can be a real job to find a warrior to espionage away by the time automobile has come along to obsolete Leo... I defy Sten to find that a good 'tactic' (it is fun though, the things I've done to lure warriors out of their towns and into certain subversion...its a good job those spies are so leggy)

[Wezil]

LMAO!! I too have been known to "collect" units john, but I don't think I've ever gone to the extremes you mention to get a rare specimen!!

[Sten Sture]

ROTF A museum of Civ units.. I had never thought of that!

Base specials: All specials are either fish or whales... Now how does this go.

Ocean__Forest___Hill__Plain____Mountain_Jungle_Swa mp_Desert
Fish___Pheasant_Wine__Buffalo_Iron_____Gems___Peat __Oasis
Whale__Silk_____Coal__Wheat____Gold_____Fruit__Spi ce_Oil

I'm trying to do that one from memory and I can't remember very well. I assume I messed up a couple and don't have the poster handy...
[This message has been edited by Sten Sture (edited December 07, 1999).]

[Steve Clark]

Sten: That was right on. Let's add the following...
Glacier: Ivory, Oil
Tundra: Musk Ox, Furs
Grassland: Grassland (that's what it says)

There seems to be some confusion as to the appearance of a special. Does mining a grassland possibly result in a special that was not there? The pattern is 3 up, 1 over but in clusters depending on seeding (thinking off the top of my head). So my original question still stands, if mining a grassland could result in a special, does the square have to be a grassland to begin with?

The set of units for the museum is very cool. Imagine having a warrior wandering in the tundra at the edge of the map and then coming back to a modern civ. Like finding a cavemen frozen in a glacier In all you folks collective experiences, what has been the greatest mismatch in a war against another civ? I once took out a warrior and an original settler that was stuck since the beginning of a game on an island with fighters (but that was an isolated event, not a war). If one would think about something like this realistically, it's a scary thought. Something out of science fiction.

OK, end of rambling. Need to get back to the game...

[Sten Sture]

Steve - Yes, the square has to be a grassland to begin with in order to "find" a special by mining it to a forest. If it were any other type of terrain the special would already be showing if the pattern put one there. valmont's recommendation to mess around with the map editor for a few minutes is the best way to look for the pattern and discover what changing the terrain on a special does.

Now go kick some technology butt and get to AC!

[johnmcd]

I would think you probably don't need to upgrade your units at the moment, unless you are at war or the computer regularly threatens you. I think upgrading units regulary is an incredible waste of resources. If you have walls phalanxs will do the job for some time to come. Another heretical idea/ strategy of mine is that musketeers are in fact pants. I tend to go from phalanx to alpine troops or riflemen to mech inf. I don't see the point in any of the others if your pursuing an AC route. I expect Sten will have other ideas though . You would do better to spend those shields on universities and banks. Mind you a crusader per frontier can make an extremely powerful aggressive defense for this time in the game.
[This message has been edited by johnmcd (edited December 07, 1999).]

[Sten Sture]

(find a way to disagree with johnmcd... )

I am ambivalent about upgrading to muskets, the only negative to me is losing a 20 shield option for rushbuilding. Same thing applies to losing the warrior option with feudalism, but overall the musket doesn't hurt that much; true you want to get them to alpines, but stopping at musketeers first doesn't bother me. If you have walls your defenses (with some counterattacking 2 movement units) should be solid up to metalurgy. Not having engineers is a problem, I would worry about that more.

[johnmcd]

I think the greatest length I went to to get a unit for a museum (a warrior) was to build a city two tiles form Kyoto (the last Japanese city) and make it my capital, once I had discovered Kyoto was the home of a warrior and a phalanx. The warrior took my undefended capital, but he went home went home with my brunette.

It was also in this game I had the greatest difference in tech. I launced my spaceship in the late 19thC, the same turn as the Mongols invented writing! I do like negative percentages…
Read Lycidius's posts on the mismatch of armies here, really, do its the funniest post I've seen.
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum6/HTML/000865.html
sadly he seems to have stopped posting
[This message has been edited by johnmcd (edited December 08, 1999).]