Earliest landing with basic settings.

[arii]

The strategy for the earliest landing with 1 city is now well established.
What kind of landing dates have you guys achieved using standard settings (medium map, deity, 7 civ, raging hordes)and what strategy did you use?
Militaristic? conquer early and then crank out the beackers
Expantionist? keep on building small cities
pacifist? stay at peace with the AI while expanding and setting up trade routes.
A big difference compared to OCC is it looks like if you expand too quickly the AI hates you and you don't get tribute and can't exchange knowledge.
I think the super science city is a must.
What do you guys think. What landing have you achieve?

[Adam Smith]

My fastest finish so far is 1780, but I am almost embarassed to post it given Paul's OCC landing dates.
Map settings: Large map, Deity, seven civs, raging hordes.
Cities: One super science city (size 30), seven smaller (size eight) supporting cities.
Strategy: peace treaties with all civs that will accept, repeated trade routes with high income AI cities, freely trade technologies (within reason). Building a railroad into a size 20 Babylonian city really helped in this game.
NO TRIBUTE, NO ALLIANCES.
I suspect that tribute, alliances, and a medium map (easier trade) could push the landing date down into the 1730's.

[Paul]

I never really payed much ateention to landing dates before I started playing OCC, so I don't really know my best landing so far. You should consider the fact that science goes slower on larger maps.

[Matthew]

Also consider the fact that with multiple cities in democracy it might be more difficult to keep them out of disorder with luxuries at zero, which is about where you usually want them in an OCC game, with science nearly maxed out a lot of the time. It would take a lot of additional cities to make up for the science loss from the Super Science City from lowering science rates.
I'm sure one could get an earlier launch date with more cities, especially due to the ability to build more than one ss part a turn, but I don't know that one could make all the necessary discoveries that much earlier.

[Adam Smith]

Arii:
Use caravans/freights to make up the difference between what your science city produces each turn and what you need for a given discovery. Once you get freight units (move twice as far + increase trade bonus) and a decent road/rail system you should be able to run off one discovery per turn until you are ready to launch. The key to doing this is not the PROFITABILITY of each caravan/freight, since some of the science bonus from a high-profit freight unit will be wasted. The most important thing is that you can CONSISTENTLY land one unit per turn for the rest of the game, otherwise the turn is wasted. Sometimes you will need to stack a few freight units near destination cities until the turn you need them.

[Matthew]

I think that a severe danger is becoming too powerful. If you do, I understood from another thread that you take a severe hit in science, not to mention having a smaller choice in research on some turns. The research selection variety seems to be determined by the power graph more than by how much of a tech lead you have.

[Matthew]

oops
[This message has been edited by Matthew (edited September 24, 1999).]

[arii]

It's not easy!!!
I gave it a try. My strategy was to build 1 major science city, 3-4 smaller science cities (with library, univ, trade routes) and a host of smaller cities to support the science cities. It's not producing enough science!
I could only get 1 tech every 2 turns only after 1700. My mystake was probably to go with too many cities and not focussing enough on the science ones.

[Mark_Everson]

The idea about having a group of big cities in addition to the SSC may be a way to do better... There's just not that much time till 1750 in a deity game (200 turns I think).

I got there in the 1770s, but on a small map. It was a Lot harder than I thought it'd be. I used an SSC which got to about 35 pop, and about 30 size-8s. I think you could maybe get back to around 1750 if you were willing to be Really careful about it. A fair amount of luck is needed too IMO, especially in getting good land with rivers etc. The two most important things I found were to have all the smaller cities have caravans to the SSC (which more than doubles their trade with all 3 caravans) and to establish good defensible boundaries with the other civs early. If someone can do it before 1700, I want to a) shake their hand; and b) hear how!



------------------
Mark Everson
Project lead for The Clash of Civilizations
(That means I do the things nobody else wants to do ;-) )
This Radically different civ game needs your suggestions and/or criticism of our design.
Check our our Forum right here at Apolyton...

[arii]

I landed yesterday in 1809 using a small map and basic settings. I still have a long way to go.
I agree that the game goes very fast and there is not much time develop much.
I had a SSC of size 21 and 2 other SC. I did not want to spend the trade ressorces to expend the cities more.
My biggest problem was to get enough science going. Building the space ship is not a problem, getting to fusion power as quickly as possible is very hard. I could only get it in 1794 even though I was getting 1 tech every 2 turns for most of the game. You don't have a big advantage vs OCC by being able to build the space ship in less turns because it takes at least 10-20 turns to go from space flight to fusion power.
I've got to try harder, I know I can do much better than that.

[DaveV]

Here's how not to do it:

I've just abandoned a game I've been playing for a month, after discovering Automobile in 1600 and realizing I still had a long way to go.

I built MPE early and monitored the AIs closely. If they were researching a tech I already had, I gave them the tech. Otherwise, I asked for tribute or traded maps with them. I stayed in Communism, with WLTCD for extra trade, for most of the game so I could demand tribute. I collected thousands in tribute and picked up lots of techs from the AI. I think I lost out by not maxing out my population with WLTPD under Rep/Dem.

[arii]

Good to see different strategies daveV. I go for rep as some as practical and demo as soon as pos.
I landed in 1789 in my last attempt on a small map.
1770 is a very good score. There is so few turns. So far I haven't been able to produce enough trade for a new tech less than every 2 turns. I can get to 1 every too turns eraly but then I can't get to 1 every turn.
Good luck to anybody that is tryimg that.
Ariitea

[Mark_Everson]

arii:

It took me Lots of tries. Maybe 30 games I just pitched because the terrain was lousy. Then I played at least 4 or so to the point where it was clear I wouldn't do it by 1800.
And to be perfectly honest, I Actually landed in 1783 because I Forgot Fusion was neccessary for a Fast ship until after Launch . (In my defence I don't generally have the patience for a spaceship win, so this was like the 2nd ship I ever built.) So I said late 1770s, 'cause that's what I think I could've gotten if I hadn't choked at the end. IIRC I lost about 6 years of transit time due to no Fusion. So if I had caught it earlier it would've been 1777 or so. I can't remember if I overshot the absolutely required techs or not. So it could've been as late as 1779. I was so sick of the concept that I didn't want to redo it to see what the real date was...

So don't feel too bad

BTW I think I may have figured out a trick that might enable launching somewhat earlier, say around 1750. It has to do with the variable tech rate that exists on deity. If you are a bit ahead in tech you get socked with a +1 to the 'tech paradigm' if the book can be trusted. That's something like a 7-10% hit on your research effectiveness. So after the AIs quit trading, which is very early for my style of play, give all your tech away to everyone asap. Obviously if you're gonna build a wonder you need to keep That tech secret until you're done.

The thought is that this will take that looong stretch when you're getting a tech every 5-10 turns or so and juice it up a bit. If anyone tries this, let me know if it works.

Mark

[This message has been edited by Mark_Everson (edited October 14, 1999).]

[arii]

You are probably right. I have also notice that in games where I was giving techs to the AI in OCC I was actually doing better.

[DaveV]

Mark E,

Giving away techs not only has the benefit of preventing a penalty on your research efforts, but you can pick up techs from the AIs when they discover them. This lets you take advantage of the AIs' research bonus.
[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited October 16, 1999).]