How To Maximize Trade Between Two Cities?

[Zenon]

Nice work, sirsnuggles!

Practically speaking the influence of corruption should be considered when choosing an AI city as a trading partner. The closer to their capital the better. ( why did I never think of this before, it´s pretty obvious)
Also, if the SSC is not the capital building a courthouse has actually a greater effect as it counters the negative effects of corruption on base trade and on overall trade. I guess we should also list the courthouse when taking about city improvements influencing trade routes.

Originally posted by sirsnuggles
PS. Whenever a new trade route is established, the computer always chooses the highest three trade routes.

What is meant with highest here?

Zenon

[sirsnuggles]

Let's say that three trade routes already exist. If you attempt a fourth route, if that fourth route is larger than any of the previous three, than the lowest of those other three is kicked out. Now, the value that the computer uses as an evaluation is the final value of the trade route after all bonuses and corruption has been considered.

I don't recall seeing a route that would produce higher trade arrows fail to be implemented, except if the source city has already sent a caravan of the same commodity to the destination city.

Thanks Stu.

Stu, I have just read of your loss. I'm sorry. RL took me for a time, and I'm just now getting back to Civ2, otherwise I would have responded earlier.


Anyone else going to see Matrix 3 this weekend?

I'm predicting that Zion is another Matrix, and that physical reality doesn't truly exist. The movie seems to be gnostic in nature, and that's what gnosticism is all about: that physical reality doesn't exist.

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by sirsnuggles
Let's say that three trade routes already exist. If you attempt a fourth route, if that fourth route is larger than any of the previous three, than the lowest of those other three is kicked out. Now, the value that the computer uses as an evaluation is the final value of the trade route after all bonuses and corruption has been considered.

I don't recall seeing a route that would produce higher trade arrows fail to be implemented, except if the source city has already sent a caravan of the same commodity to the destination city.

So ...

... the new route displaces the lowest of the existing three routes except if the source city for the new delivery has already sent the same commodity. In this case the lowest route only gets replaced if the route value is two or more trade arrows lower than the next highest route.

That sounds like a pretty complicated rule and at the moment I can't think why the designer or programer would do it that way.

I still suspect there is something more complicated going on that we don't fully understand.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Zenon]

Originally posted by sirsnuggles
Let's say that three trade routes already exist. If you attempt a fourth route, if that fourth route is larger than any of the previous three, than the lowest of those other three is kicked out. Now, the value that the computer uses as an evaluation is the final value of the trade route after all bonuses and corruption has been considered.

I don't recall seeing a route that would produce higher trade arrows fail to be implemented, except if the source city has already sent a caravan of the same commodity to the destination city.

Sirsnuggles, I have added an example where a lower valued trade route replaces a higher valued trade route. In this sav a freight from Thebes is activated and can be delivered to Memphis. Memphis currently has 3 trade routes with Ur at value 32. After delivery one of these trade routes has been replaced by a trade route to Thebes with a value of only 15.

But I have also found another example where a delivery from a city with higher base trade does not replace theses Ur trade routes. Close to Giza are several freights waiting to build Apollo in time. The gold freight from Pi-Ramesses can also be delivered to Memphis. Even with maximized trade base (higher than the trade base of Ur) the trade routes are not replaced. I am afraid that the assumption that the replacements follow the trade base is also in doubt. There are are many examples that work with the trade base but I can´t explain the exceptions.

Zenon

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Zenon

Sirsnuggles, I have added an example where a lower valued trade route replaces a higher valued trade route. In this sav a freight from Thebes is activated and can be delivered to Memphis. Memphis currently has 3 trade routes with Ur at value 32. After delivery one of these trade routes has been replaced by a trade route to Thebes with a value of only 15.

But I have also found another example where a delivery from a city with higher base trade does not replace theses Ur trade routes. Close to Giza are several freights waiting to build Apollo in time. The gold freight from Pi-Ramesses can also be delivered to Memphis. Even with maximized trade base (higher than the trade base of Ur) the trade routes are not replaced. I am afraid that the assumption that the replacements follow the trade base is also in doubt. There are are many examples that work with the trade base but I can´t explain the exceptions.

Zenon

Interesting ...

... when Thebes has a base trade of 32, the new route does replace one of the UR routes. If Thebes is reduced to a base trade of 29, none of the Ur routes are replaced. Ur seems to have a base trade of 18 less corruption of about 3. I wonder if it is significant that this is less than half 32, but more than half 29?

RJM at Sleeper's

[Zenon]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
I wonder if it is significant that this is less than half 32, but more than half 29?
RJM at Sleeper's

Yes, indeed! I have done some more tests on different maps and I think I can add some findings to the research work Elephant and sirsnuggles have done as far as the trade route replacement is concerned.

Basically the replacement of trade routes is calculated on the trade base. When you try to establish a 4th trade route the trade route with the city that has the lowest trade base of the 4 possibilities is abandoned.

But there are modifiers that apply on the replacement of trade routes, too. It is the qualified road/railroad connection, the 2 airports bonus and the 50% reduction on domestic trade. Road/railroad and airport bonus apply only on the trade routes that are to be replaced. They are not considered for the value of the trade route that is about to be established. The domestic reduction is only considered when the delivery is going to the AI, not when an AI trade route is about to be replaced by a domestic delivery. Superhighways only improve the trade base.

The modifiers are the same as descibed by Elephant and sirsnuggles for the calculation of the trade route value.

There are still some minor exceptions. If the (modified) trade bases are very close (1 beaker difference) or equal trade routes are sometimes replaced and sometimes not. This process somehow escapes me. But otherwise it works as described above.

Zenon

[sirsnuggles]

What do you mean by "a one beaker difference." Are you referring to how the game distributes the final trade into its three components (that is, beakers, gold, luxuries). If so, I have those formula's; there is a predictable rhyme to their madness.

[Elephant]

Originally posted by Zenon

But there are modifiers that apply on the replacement of trade routes, too.

I have been playing with these issues in recent tests. I will look into what you say this next week. Thanks for working on that side of things. There is still some question in my mind about the rounding of domestic trade reduction, too.

[Straybow]

Way baad, duuuude!

What do you mean by "a one beaker difference."

I think wherever Zenon has said "beaker" he has meant "trade arrow" (at least, in this thread).

[Transport modifiers] are not considered for the value of the trade route that is about to be established.

If that were true, how could any delivery to or from Toledo (+7 w/o road bonus) displace a Cordoba-Madrid route in this example?

[Straybow]

Displaced route

Was that delivered by African swallows or European swallows?

[Zenon]

Stray,

yes I meant trade arrows. I am sometimes struggling with the language. Could you post or send a .sav of your examples? That would be helpful. I can´t look for a reason with the city screens alone.

Zenon

[Straybow]

OK, here 'tis

[Thoddy]

In the example Cordoba demands beads and
it seems, an older route was replaced by the actually demanded beads-caravan route

Test the same configuration with a non beads caravan from Valencia.