Temples

[rah]

Quite a few players use dial ups. As long as the host doesn't, you'll get a little bit more lag, but it isn't unplayable most of the time.

[atomant]

Mr usual start up strategy is
1) warrior (exploration)
2) warrior (exploration
3) Settler
4) Settler
5) wonder....(Usually great lib.)

I usually try and get a huge city base going as early as possible. Temples are usually built only once I have the required number of cities, till then I keep them at size three and use martial law for key cities that I want yo grow.

My early tech tree is towards monothesim, once i get that on with the crusaders and on with the conquest. The GL usually gives me the other techs as discovered by the AI

[-Jrabbit]

So, my takeaway from this is that Temples are indeed the preferred first build (as opposed to Marketplaces).

No one, SP or MP, seems to be suggesting otherwise.
Is there documentation on their relative effects?

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
So, my takeaway from this is that Temples are indeed the preferred first build (as opposed to Marketplaces).

No one, SP or MP, seems to be suggesting otherwise.
Is there documentation on their relative effects?

-Jrabbit,

For me it really depends on the Time. In the beginning, temples are necessary, markets are only nice. But later, after having built HG, Mike's Chapel, and running Lux to get WLT_D celebrations, temples can wait in new cities. Build MP, especially where there are trade specials and rivers. You get more gold and the city will be ready to celebrate at size three. Temples are no longer 'necessary' until size 5 to 9, depending on the Lux setting.

It also depends on your Intention. My strat is predicated on growing all cities and building up a sprawling trade-fat 'Civilization,' with many, many cities with enough size to contribute shields for vans and, later, SS parts...as a democracy. If the gov't is Fundy, everything changes. Then temples are a cash cow and they go to the head of the build list. If playing an early landing game, again it's temples, and markets are not even on the list, beyond the SSC.

So, I say it depends on the game and your strat. Automatically building temples first is not alway best.

Monk

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
So, my takeaway from this is that Temples are indeed the preferred first build (as opposed to Marketplaces).

No one, SP or MP, seems to be suggesting otherwise.
Is there documentation on their relative effects?

Well, in the early, early game, if you're going to build a non-wonder improvement it'll probably be a Temple.

BUT - once you have HG the first citizen is happy (barring the double unhappy HG bug, which I've never seen but I understand exists), so you don't need temples if the city doesn't get past size 2. Once you have Mikes, you don't need temples until size 5 or 6 or 7 (can't remember how many people Mikes makes content).

This presumes a luxury rate of 0. If luxuries are higher, and there are enough trade arrows in a city, a marketplace can make more people happy than a temple makes content (plus the additional cash the market generates). So, in games where I'm founding new cities and have HG/Mikes, AND/OR a decent luxury rate AND/OR am in Republic/Demo, I'll usually build a marketplace first out of the improvement list. Sometimes an aqueduct, even - I've had games where a city hits size 3 and celebrates up to size 8 without any happy improvements.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Wow! 30 seconds!!!!

I don't think I could get anywhere near that!

I too am amazed at that kind of speed.

SG[1]

One point that a SP expert might not appreciate is that it is only moving that need be done on your turn in a 3-way. All the other things you want (rush-buying, checking top 5 cities, looking at techs, expansion plans etc) to do can be done on the others' turns. If you know where you settlers and explorers are going it doesn't take long to move them.

[rah]

I will admit that in the first 15 turns of the game, when you can have as little as 10 seconds before it's your turn again, that if I'm buying up my first settler, I'll do it during my turn, to avoid building somthing that I didn't want. I've been burned enough on that so I don't risk it anymore. But that is rare exception. And I still get burned later in the game at least once a game if I'm not fast enough and doing multiple buy ups.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by rah
I will admit that in the first 15 turns of the game, when you can have as little as 10 seconds before it's your turn again, that if I'm buying up my first settler, I'll do it during my turn, to avoid building somthing that I didn't want. I've been burned enough on that so I don't risk it anymore.

Lol, we've all been there. I have played a lot of duels.......the turn goes on a minute, so you get impatient and rush the warrior/phalanx/diplo.......you get ready to change it........your finger is over the button.......BAM......it's your turn and your screwed.

[rah]

That and moving city workers. You click one off and your turn starts before you place him back in production.

[War4ever]

yeah the last one pisses me off........

Marquis...i too play chess.....alas my chess isn't as good as my civ....

[Scouse Gits]

Marquis? - have I missed a name change?

SG[1]

[DrSpike]

Yeah that confused me too.........nice to see it's not just me on a Monday morning, but that SG is confused as well.

[Scouse Gits]

Ah MdS has popped up on another thread - mayhap warz confused the threads

SG[1]

[DaveV]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
So, my takeaway from this is that Temples are indeed the preferred first build (as opposed to Marketplaces).

No one, SP or MP, seems to be suggesting otherwise.
Is there documentation on their relative effects?

As BM and STYOM already said, it depends on the stage of the game, and your strategy. Hoewever, I would base my decision not on wonders and discoveries, but on number of cities, amount of corruption, and long-term goals. If you build enough cities to have your first citizen be very unhappy and the city can generate at least two luxuries, a marketplace will change that very unhappy into a happy. A temple will only make him content. If the city has most of its arrows eaten by corruption, or you're trying to run with a zero luxury rate, the temple would probably be preferred. In ICS Fundy/Commie mode, a defensive unit would be preferred to either structure.

[rah]

Yes, if I'm running in monarchy, I REFUSE to play with anything other than 0 Lux, so temples are the prefered choice. So by the time I'm thinking of celebrating in REP, the temples are already built and i'm thinking markets.