In response to the sabotage thing:

[ruoxiaohai]

So is the chance of sabotage related to the number of improvements a city has? If so, I'm assuming that wonders don't count. Does that apply to a spy as well?
Also, do military units in a city contribute to the chance of success in sabotage?

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I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

[EdwardTKing]

In my experience the probability of success of sabotage is NOT related to the number of improvements at all.

If there are no improvements, current production is sabotaged.

Trying to sabotage a particular improvement is more risky than just trying to sabotage any thing; and some improvements such as city walls, coastal fortress, SDI
are more risky than others.

Once built a wonder can NOt be sabotaged or sold; only perhaps obsoleted or certainly irretrievably lost if the city is destroyed.

The probability of success is higher with a spy than a diplomat and higher still with a veteran spy.

The probability of success is much reduced if the city has a spy to catch your spy.

I note that if you keep trying to sabotage the same city (with AIs at least)the city becomes suspicious and the probability of success decreases further.

[Smash]

I've never had a sabotage attempt fail with dips or spys.Vets or no.AS long as I didn't pick a specific target.The dip or spy bomb run is deadly and pretty much indefensible.Only way is to stop em before they get there.Darn near impossible sometimes.

[Scouse Gits]

City Walls are harder to bring down than Coastal Fortresses. SDI is more complicated - I believe there is a message about barbed wire preventing sabotage - but my one attempt was a long time ago!! Others should know more about this.

The message about the AI being suspicious only comes when a spy attempts to steal tech more than once from the same place. (Diplos can never steal twice fron the same city) Repeated sabotage in the same location does not seem to reduce your chances of success.

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SG (2)

[ruoxiaohai]

My friend was playing in the WW79 scenario given with conflicts in civilization addon, and he was distressed to find out that he could not sabotage the enemy SDIs, so it would appear that SDIs cannot be sabotaged.
Other than that, thanks for the input!

[Laertes]

I think a previous thread showed someone experimenting with repeated sabotages. Once the experimenter had reduced the target city to just SDI as the only remaining improvement, all future sabotage attempts destroyed whatever was in production, even though no shields had been added since the last attempt.

[Bohlen]

I think the verdict is still out on whether or not SDIs can be sabotaged. It has happened before. See this thread ---> http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HTML/000971.html

[Edward]

I'll fourth the motion that SDIs cannot be sabatoged.

I had the same experience Fergus Horkan had. With only the SDI improvement left, spies will sabatoge an (even empty) production box, never the SDI.

[La Fayette]

ruoxiaohai
Back to your question: "...is the chance of sabotage related to the number of improvements...?".
I would say Yes with dips and No with spies.
Dips cannot choose. Then, if you wish to destroy city walls, the worst that can happen to you is coming to the city with one dip per turn and getting three or four messages telling you that the unit under building has been destroyed. My advice would be: send one dip to have a look and tell how many improvements there are in the city (let us say n), then come back with at least n+1 dips to make sure that the walls go down.
Spies can choose. Then, if you wish to destroy city walls, 1 of 2 vet spies will do the job for you on the average (and at least 1 of 2 will survive). I have not been using any non vet spy for a very long time, but, as far as I remember, the result is the same with lesser chances of success and heavier losses.
God save our gracious vet spies!

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aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental

[Crustacian]

Thats right, it was only said because the more improvements you have in a city (before spies with their selection abilities) the more chances you have of sabotaging one of the other buildings or production shield boxes (which can be done over and over in one turn).

Military units inside the city do not help to hinder sabotage.

And yes dips do sometimes foil the steal tech attempt. I have seen it happen lots of times.
Civ2 manual: It says "each dips has a 20% chance to twart steal tech, spies 40%, vet spies 60%, and the effect is cumulative in the effort to do this. But I do not think that having 5 dips in a city will prevent stealing of a tech from it as it says regarding the cumulative effect.

And sabotage is not prevented by having a dip in it. Tho it should be the same as with stealing imho

[Smash]

Yes there should be some way to counter sabotage.Either thru foiling or some improvement that lessens chances.I always thought the courthouse and police stations should have more "abilities".There just isn't any reasonable defense and that kinda sucks.Its great if I'm the one sabotaging;

[Crustacian]

It was interesting to try some tests. one city had 6 dips inside, but on the 11th attempt a tech was stolen.

the other cities each had 5 dips and anywhere from the 1st try to maybe 8 tries before a tech was stolen.

But, it would be such a loss of dips to steal against such a counterespionage defense that it may be too impractical. A player would need a bunch of dips ready, and unless they were on a boat, would be sitting ducks if their mission failed. Evn then it would be no guarantee any would escape.

So get known as a heavy defender with dips and maybe no one will mess with you.

[SlowThinker]

quote: <font size=1>Originally posted by Crustacian on 01-09-2001 03:23 PM</font> Civ2 manual: It says "each dips has a 20% chance to twart steal tech, spies 40%, vet spies 60%, and the effect is cumulative in the effort to do this.

I claimed at point 11.2 of LINK: Info: Diplomats and Spies that it is not cumulative

quote: <font size=1>Originally posted by Crustacian on 01-09-2001 03:23 PM</font> But I do not think that having 5 dips in a city will prevent stealing of a tech from it as it says regarding the cumulative effect.

It may be cumulative this way:
Chance against one dip = 0.8 (80%)
Chance against 2 dips = 0.8*0.8 (64%)
Chance against 3 dips = 0.8^3
(^ means power)
etc
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited January 10, 2001).]

[debeest]

I believe this to be the case. I think you should add it as a tentative conclusion in your excellent dip/spy thread.

[SlowThinker]

good advertisement, debeest

There is many unanswered probability-oriented questions in LINK: Info: Diplomats and Spies (they have a blue color there), does anybody want to perform and to release some tests? I am bored with dip/spy tests yet.
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited January 10, 2001).]