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[/quote]I guess I don't see how it takes a whole lot of effort to pull off[/quote]
Disagree. Try it without a Temple or Marketplace. Who hasn't had the frustrating experience of a celebrating city stuck at size 7 while you rush in settlers to irrigate more grass or plains? Who hasn't had the Vikings come knocking on your door with vet Knights while your cities are building Caravans and Libraries?
Bribery is only eliminated under Democracy. Add that 80 shield Courthouse to the list of "must-haves" for a Republic to grow. In reality, you don't even get double the science rate out of Republic compared to ICS Monarchy due to the loss of trade to luxuries. And of course each science advance makes the next one come slower and slower. While you'll be ahead, pretty soon your science rate will not be much better off than under Monarchy.
If you begin a journey, you must know your destination or else become lost with the first step, i.e. If your gonna play ICS, then go for it all the way. You must beat the AI before (IMO) they get Industrialization and Democracy. IMHO if you beat down the AI with war in the early and mid game, you should just finish them off since the game becomes just too easy after that.
YMMV of course. I find war with the AI laughably easy. But leave them alone and let them get into the modern era and find out what a real space race can be.
And the same thing happens to your cities. The game expects this and adjusts accordingly: science advances take more and more beakers. Units cost more and more. Improvement upkeep costs get more expensive. I mean really: just how are you supposed to build 320 shield Solar Plants or SS Modules in a size 11 city?
Not unless you already have the infrastructure.
You can get 1500+ science and gold by trading with the AI - and only you get the bonus. I understand your position but consider this: If you have, say, 15 cities that each have 3 trade routes with the same AI city, you'll get the trade from 45 routes each turn while the AI will only get trade from 3 of them. Each of those routes will be worth double what they would be if you traded with yourself. Best of all, you can keep reestablishing the trade routes to get the bonus over and over. This makes it worthwhile to build Superhighways which increase the value of the routes and the bonus yet again. Give it a try!
But you must wait for a new city to become size 3 before anything happens. Also, you can only build one thing in a new city per turn and you must wait for you Engineers to transform, irrigate, road, etc. It's still quite a bit to do.
Actually, the city grows painfully slow late in the game. Some of this is the effect of how long turns take late in the game vs. early in the game.
Disagree. Try it without a Temple or Marketplace. Who hasn't had the frustrating experience of a celebrating city stuck at size 7 while you rush in settlers to irrigate more grass or plains? Who hasn't had the Vikings come knocking on your door with vet Knights while your cities are building Caravans and Libraries?
quote: That extra trade is huge. In addition, I also believe the rate of corruption is lower under Republic, removed under Democracy, and all bribery is disallowed. I consider those huge advantages. |
Bribery is only eliminated under Democracy. Add that 80 shield Courthouse to the list of "must-haves" for a Republic to grow. In reality, you don't even get double the science rate out of Republic compared to ICS Monarchy due to the loss of trade to luxuries. And of course each science advance makes the next one come slower and slower. While you'll be ahead, pretty soon your science rate will not be much better off than under Monarchy.
| quote: ICS works best when the cities are kept minute. But - that usually precludes happiness improvements, preventing the move to Rep or Dem until much much later |
If you begin a journey, you must know your destination or else become lost with the first step, i.e. If your gonna play ICS, then go for it all the way. You must beat the AI before (IMO) they get Industrialization and Democracy. IMHO if you beat down the AI with war in the early and mid game, you should just finish them off since the game becomes just too easy after that.
| quote: I've not always found it so easy, depending on the opposition and my luck at the start |
YMMV of course. I find war with the AI laughably easy. But leave them alone and let them get into the modern era and find out what a real space race can be.
| quote: The Mongol cities don't stay at size 4. They will grow to become ridiculous size cities with 4 Mech Inf., 4 Cruise, and 4 Stealth. |
And the same thing happens to your cities. The game expects this and adjusts accordingly: science advances take more and more beakers. Units cost more and more. Improvement upkeep costs get more expensive. I mean really: just how are you supposed to build 320 shield Solar Plants or SS Modules in a size 11 city?
| quote: They can be immediate, |
Not unless you already have the infrastructure.
| quote: But the enemy loses all the value. Sorry, no trade for the enemy. I can pull in 500+ |
You can get 1500+ science and gold by trading with the AI - and only you get the bonus. I understand your position but consider this: If you have, say, 15 cities that each have 3 trade routes with the same AI city, you'll get the trade from 45 routes each turn while the AI will only get trade from 3 of them. Each of those routes will be worth double what they would be if you traded with yourself. Best of all, you can keep reestablishing the trade routes to get the bonus over and over. This makes it worthwhile to build Superhighways which increase the value of the routes and the bonus yet again. Give it a try!
| quote: But man, if I peg those luxuries, once the basic infrastructure is in, I could clean house. |
But you must wait for a new city to become size 3 before anything happens. Also, you can only build one thing in a new city per turn and you must wait for you Engineers to transform, irrigate, road, etc. It's still quite a bit to do.
| quote: The city is grown progressively, |
Actually, the city grows painfully slow late in the game. Some of this is the effect of how long turns take late in the game vs. early in the game.
I wonder whos words would you have associated Yoda's with when you first heard his?
). I'm not an experienced player as you sure noticed from the Settler attribute in my profile? 
), with a puny army (no time to build a stronger one and no military discouveries that would help with upgrated ones), and with only two cities (yeah, I lost one to the Infidels because my rookie Warriors were no match for their I Horsemen).
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