If you could build 1 wonder....

[klesh]

Point well taken, my friend, Steve.
However, the value of a short strong wonder such as Leo's may actually equate to a less strong forever wonder like Magellan's. Depends on how you want to win. I like to span the entire game, I'll let the AI build up, so when the modern units arrive there will be a challenge. I'll take a millenium or two of Magellan's as apposed to a few centuries of SunTsu. All a matter of opinion, I guess.

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I am the Ukrainian Anti-Pope!

[Bohlen]

I gotta go with Adam Smith's, with Magellan's a semi-close second. If you would have asked me a month ago I would have given you a different second place, but probably not a first place. Adam's is THE wonder that keeps giving and giving. If you have it and Magellan's you can possibly trade to your little heart's content and buy your spaceship pronto when the time comes.

[Steve Clark]

I like Adam's but correct me if I'm wrong, it is only beneficial if you have alot of 1-gold improvements in alot of cities. I don't think many play that way. In my last game, I built about 8-10 cities, added temples in most of them, a library in a couple and a marketplace. Adam's will only save me about 10 gold per turn. That's not much. I think if I built 40-50 cities, with temples, barracks, etc. in each, then it would really pay off. As I play now, Adam's is just not a priority for me anymore.

[Neon Deon]

I too love Adam Smith's. But, only in expansionist mode. I now usually play perfectionist SP with the MG edition.
My favorite wonder is the United Nations.
Stops the nasty MGE AI from declaring war
on u every 5 mins

[Lung]

Not much has been said in support of the Pyramids, but the value of this wonder cannot be underestimated. Ever tried terraforming as fast as your cities grow with the Pyramids? The importance of the Pyramids is that you grow so fast, that you can build all of the wonders you want (the same goes for King Richard's Crusade. That city becomes your main wonder builder). Thanks to the Pyramids, in my current game i was able to build 5 wonders at once, and i beat all of the other 6 civs. The Pyramids alone may not win you the game, but the other 10 you build thanks to the Pyramids will!

Also, Conpernicus' Observatory - you're kidding, right? Perhaps with only 3 or 4 civs, but with 5-7 it's gotta be the Great Library. For two reasons - firstly, the one previously mentioned about getting every advance that's traded between other civs, and secondly, that you can always go for the more modern advances available to reasearch, knowing that the older ones will come to you for free. Even with the Pyramids, sooner or later you have to research Pottery. Not with the GL. It's only a matter of time. Why research pottery when you can research Monotheism and conquer anyone within distance with your spiffy new Crusaders? If you use it right, you should get 20 or 30 free advances from the GL. Does CO give you that?

Also, for worlds with lots of water, Magellan's Expedition is a must. You can trade twice as fast and outrun your enemies and strike at will. Also, your invasions are far more effective. Not enough can be said either for the merits of Adam Smith's, Mike's Chapel, Hoover Dam, Sun Tzyu's and the UN.

Of course, different circumstances require different wonders, but i'd like most of them in every game.

[Smash]

I get most "other" techs thru trading or stealing.I usually don't get that many techs from The Library in single play.If I get 6 thats alot.With Cope's,my civ is the first to discover most techs.

[geofelt]

My favorite is hanging gardens. At deity, my games improved immensely once I built hanging-gardens. The benefits are threefold:
1) As you expand, the first citizen is happy, letting you use two squares to build a defender and control happiness.
2) The build city(usually the palace) gets three happy citizens, allowing it to celebrate WLTL up to size 6, allowing republic type trade which helps science and gold.
3) Once in republic/democracy, it gives you the extra happy citizen to allow WLTL and grow.

[klesh]

Smartfart,
The WLTKD thing has to occur for two turns in a row for it to take effect. Republics and Democracies will see their city size increase after the second turn, while Fundamentalists, Communists and Monarchies collect resources as if they were Republics. Finally, Despots will see their city collectg resources as if it were a Monarchy.

Hope this clears things up for you...

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I am the Ukrainian Anti-Pope!

[SmartFart]

Single player mode.....Pyramids=all wonders i want.
Multiplayer(x1x1)......Pyramids=Mich

[SlowHand]

MC's Chapel. Adam Smith and Leonardos are surely right there, though.
Pyramids? Bah! your cities should grow fast enough to max out without.

[Bohlen]

No Pyramids? No problem. Use WLTLD and the need for granaries is nil. Also, if WLTLD can not be used, build granaries in only those cities that need them. Not all usually do as food production is not very high.

[SmartFart]

Of course you can live w/o pyramids.
You can live with no wonders at all,even on a deity level.
Am just trying to say that pyramids are most important early wonder.
It's a simple math.
Furthermore...you cannot WLTLD early,no matter how good you are and am talking about deity,since that is only level i ever played (with possible 4-5 exceptions in MP games).

[Venger]

Funny how long it took someone to mention Pyramids...

Honestly, it all depends on the game itself. If you are on a large map with lots of area, Pyramids is nearly REQUIRED to win. Teh ability to spawn growth not only makes for larger cities but improved research, production, etc. City size 5 beats the hell out of city size 3.

Magellan's is important if you are isolated by geography from the rest of the Civs. The extra two moves is the difference between naval superiorty and waiting for Stealth...

But...

Overall, in Deity, the single most important improvement is Mike's Chapel. This is exacerbated on large maps with a large number of cities, as new cities start out in disorder. Not with Mike's...think of the productivity and tax and science boosts available by removing the need for Enterntainers and allowing even a 10% reduction in luxury level.

Venger

[Bohlen]

Smart: Everything you say is true. A quickly growing civ in the early game is essential for winning, whether it is by founding new cities or with granaries. My game tends to be more on the ICS side (not entirely) so granaries & Pyramids early on aren't that important because my cities stay at around size 2 with all the settlers coming out of them. Once my expansion slows down, a granary here and there, then Republic, and Boom! WLTLD.

Don't get me wrong. The Pyramids are awesome, but if I had to choose only ONE wonder it would be Adam's. That's at both Emperor and Deity.

This thread is just another piece of evidence that this game is capable of being played over and over, with different strategies, none of which are wrong.

God...I love this game.

[Steve Clark]

To throw my 1 1/2 cents back in, I think what was just said that Mich's Chapel is the most CRITICAL wonder at Deity is right on. From a conqueror view, SunTzu/Leo works best, but Mich is the most beneficial. BTW, I don't know if anyone has done this but it would be cool if one could do a cost/benefit analysis of each of the wonders.

The favorable comment about Pyramids I just don't agree with, but then again, that's the genius of Civ2! A size 5 city is NOT better than a size 3 city if those two extra citizens causes unhappiness problems. A size 3 city, fully productive is more beneficial to my civ than one that causes me to reduce my research production. Or better said, I would much rather have a size 3 and a size 2 city than one at size 5 early in the game. Therefore, I just don't want grow my cities faster than I can manage. IMO, of course.