Just a few things about OCC

[Caesar the Great]

Thanks for the advice Paul. I was going over my log and realized how LATE I got democracy. And actually I established 6 trade routes over the course of the game. Is that too many?

This is for my OCC game I'm hosting. We have a total of 3 players right now. I hope you can make it next Tuesday. I'll try to get another player, although it might be easier with only 3. The settings will be discussed before the game and it will be from 2000 to 2200 EST. Thats 1500 to 1700 GMT I think. We can have it for a little later if you need to.

I really want a cable modem .

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CtG

[Caesar the Great]

I just realized I was playing on my "modified" version of civ2. I feel like such a ******. I made it to make the game HARDER. I made the techs go at 15/10, monarchy pays for 0 units. And I made roads and rivers move 1/2 and an aqueduct needed at 6 and sewer system at 10. I feel so dumb. I thought I should be doing so well. I have to play on my other 2.42, or one of my 4 MGE's ... so thats whats taking all the space on my comp.

Another thing for smarthfart, if you can make the time you can play. The game consists of me, kengel and war4ever. This is so the top 5 should only show 4 cities. Well that might not be so great and we might play with 3 AI , no thats too easy. The settings will be decided before the game. I hope to see you there 15.00 on tuesday.

And one last thing thing for Paul, I'll post logs from an unmodified game. It will have city improvements, techs, I won't include tribute because it will take way too long, and I have some work that I've been procrastinating. Oh well. I hope I can get a good landing time, but of course its not official because its on a four whale map.

Thank you for the advice I will use it wisely.

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CtG

[Paul]

Caesar, you can never establish too many trade routes. I always build a caravan/freight whenever a new commodity becomes available.

[Caesar the Great]

Here is the other list as promised. Not much better, but I got screwed with the end techs. It took forever to get computers. Well here it is. I tried to follow your directions. Initially I was doing better but it took me a long time to get Isaacs and Demo. Well thanks again.

4000 Alpha, BW, Masonry, WC
3750 CB
3350 CoL
3300 Map Making
3250 Currency
2650 Pottery
2500 Writing
2000 Colossus
1850 Monarchy
1700 Gov: Monarchy, Temple
1650 Construction
1400 Library, Seafaring
1000 Literacy, Coloseum
875 Marketplace
800 Republic
700 Gov: Republic
625 Trade Route
450 Philosophy, Mathematics
325 Astronomy
200 Copernicus'
150 University
25 Medicine
1 University
20 Engineering, HR, Wheel, Polytheism
80 Theory of Gravity
160 Iron Working, Sanitation
220 Bridge Building
260 Banking
340 Invention
360 Trade Route
380 Sewer System
400 Bank, Democracy
440 Trade Route
520 Chemistry, Gov: Democracy
540 Gunpowder
660 Navigation
740 Physics
780 Steam Engine
820 Isaac Newton's, Railroad
860 Indurialization, Harbor
920 Metallurgy
940 Magnetism
1000 Electricity
1080 Conscription
1140 Economics
1160 Darwins, Explosives, Atomic Theory
1200 Steel
1260 Stock Exchange, Corporation
1360 Electronics
1420 Refrigeration
1480 Feudalism
1520 Refining
1560 Chivalry
1580 Combustion
1620 Automobiles
1660 Superhighways
1670 Monotheism
1700 Nuclear Fission
1730 Leadership
1750 Powerplant, Nuclear Power, Flight
1766 Nuclear Plant
1768 Radio
1776 The Laser
1780 Tactics
1786 Communism
1792 Machine Tools
1798 Advanced Flight
1804 Miniturization
1806 Offshore Platform
1810 Computers
1816 Mobile Warefare
1822 Rocketry
1830 Space Flight
1834 Apollo
1840 Robotics
1842 Manufacturing Plant
1846 Plastics
1850 Fusion Power
1868 Launch
1883 Land

I could have gotten 20 years off if I didn't get all those useless techs so soon. Well I hope you have some helpful hints for me. Thanks again Paul. Get MGE so you can join my OCC game.

[vik]

Paul, thanks for your answers to my questions. I would like you or someone else to elaborate on a follow-up I have on the caravans.

After 3 trade routes are established, you told me that additional trade routes give would give me a science bonus as well as a cash bonus.

I was wondering if this science bonus was permanent, or if it's a one-time donation towards the thing you are researching.

If it's a permanent bonus, then it's a great deal, but if it's a one time bonus, it seems like that return would diminish where you're at the point of a new tech discovery every other turn.

thanks

[Smash]

No its a one time bonus.Hides caravan fetches 200 gold then you also get 200 beakers.Unless the new route is more lucrative.Then it "replaces" an old route.3 "operating" routes max per city

[Ethnic Clenser]

so there is no way of losing a better trade route then??? ie a gold route producing 13trade as opposed to a coal route producing 8trade??

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They Call Me Fierce. Mr. Fierce!

[Aurelius]

Smash,

Are you sure about the 200 beaker part of your last post? I've always assumed that the gold was just one time gold and the beakers were related to the three listed trade routes--say 3 or 4 beakers early and 15 or 25 beakers in late year.

I really don't know the answer, but I'd be surprised if the 200 gold were associated with the beakers.

Aurelius the Gold.

[Paul]

Caesar, this log does have more info, although I'm still missing some things. The start of the game looks very good. In my 1775 record I got Copernicus only one turn before you. I am missing Shakespeare in your log, but since you got medicine in 25 BC and built a university in 1 AD you probably built it after your university? I always like to get Shakespeare and sewer before university so that I can start my WLTCD to size 20 earlier. I also miss the aqueduct in your log; I assume you built it after republic for your first WLTCD to size 12? I would also recommend building marketplace before colosseum unless you are growing so fast that you need it to keep order in your city. After all, the market gives you money, but the colosseum costs money if you build it too early. I also see that you built your temple before library; try to get library first next time unless you grow so fast that you need the temple.

I also notice that you got your first trade route set up earlier this time. The second trade route in your log is 360 AD. I assume that you left out some routes? 360 AD would definitely be too late for your second route.

Also, if you have a good city site after Newton your science should be every two turns. From your log I see that it took you 3 or 4 turns so maybe you should set a higher science rate or get a better city location. A also try to get economics/stock exchange earlier in the game, not too long after Newton. You might also want refrigeration shorter after electricity, or did you just not get it as an option? And it did take you very long to get computers. I always try to get that before flight, but that may also have been a case of not getting it as a research option? This has also delayed your research of robotics/manufacturing plant and the building of your spaceship.

With some more luck in getting the right research options and these hints you should definitely be able to do much better the next time you play OCC.

Vik/Aurelius, when you establish a trade route you also get a one time beaker bonus. Read my post from 13:00 yesterday. That may have less effect later when you get science every two turns, but if the bonus is high enough you can raise your science rate a bit and get a new science in one turn instead of two. That would save a turn on your final result.

[geofelt]

As I understand it, supply and demand only affect the bonus, and not the continuing trade value.

[Caesar the Great]

Sorry Paul but I'm not too good at logs. I actually got Shakespeares around 200 AD. Also I established a second trade route when I researched universite. And I also left out a handfull of techs. I built coloseum the immidiatly an aqueduct. As you can see I was astrayed from the most direct way of research toward the end. But with your advice I have become a much better OCC player. Thanks for you help.

BTW I'm hosting a OCC multiplayer game on Tuesday. I'll be posting some observations I make on the multiplayer board. I know you don't have MGE... so you can't play and your probably don't visit the board. But say around wednesday you might want to take a look and see what the four of us in the game have posted.

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CtG

[Paul]

That's right. That's why especially for your first three trade routes you may ignore demand and just pick some large AI cities.

That was of course a reply to geofelt's post; but Caesar posted before I did.
[This message has been edited by Paul (edited January 06, 2000).]

[Caesar the Great]

And one last thing Paul, I didn't put in my last post... this isn't trying to increase my post count... I swear... Please Ming don't ban me agai... never mind. Anyway I was wondering if there is a tech path that you live by. I know how things should be built and I generally follow that. I remember someone, possibly you posting something about the tech goals you set?

Could you either rewrite them here or give me a link to that post. I went to your site, nice work on it, and I really couldn't find a short simple list of goals you set. Thanks again. Beat 1800... if anyone can do it you can... or possibly a cheater.

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CtG

[Paul]

My OCC strategy guide at http://home.planet.nl/~belt0018/occ.htm has some information you might want to read including a tech path.

[Caesar the Great]

Thanks.