Just a few things about OCC

[Caesar the Great]

First of all 2.42 is a must. It is much easier to get gifts, alliances and maps. I played two games today on the exact same map. When I played with MGE I was slaughtered. (I was trying to get more and more gifts) But I played the exact same map, same civs everything and I managed to land in 1881 a personal best. For anyone who is trying to beat Paul's record use 2.42 or else it is almost impossible.

The rest of this is a bunch of questions. First of all I want to know what would be the best combination of resources? 2 fish, 2 gold - 2 whale, 2 gold et cetera. Another thing for Paul, since you are the undisputed king, excuse me diety of OCC I was wondering if you will be willing to give me some hints if I posted a log of a game? Please, if you can't I'll understand.

And lastly in your game comparson with Aurelius I noticed you found many huts. I cannot seem to find any huts. My problem is that if I get units to get more huts my production suffers and I can't build things fast enough. And if I don't get units I can't get ahead in techs because I haven't received them from huts. Any thoughts?

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CtG

[War4ever]

Caesar..... hopefully in OCC you get units close to other civs so they become NONE units that way production isn't slowed.
Also with techs.... if you get abunch before monarchy that can really slow you down to the point IMO that Monarchy is a must have tech asap..... i would rather units and money than too many techs because i guarrantee you will get some that aren't on the right path for the time

I hate taking 39 turns to discouver COL after getting currency trade writing and masonry..... before Monarchy .... that to me is the killer in OCC


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They call me Mr. Fierce

[Paul]

Caesar, I think the best combination of resources would be two whales/two gold. Whales are very good in the early game when they give a good mix of all resources. Gold gives the most trade but has no food so you can only use it later when you have a larger city with other workers on irrigated grassland to compensate for the lack of food.

On the huts: I always look for huts before I settle my city. The best is to get one or two fast units from your first couple of huts. If they are NON they don't require support, so it won't cost you shields. If I get a supported unit I will usually send it back to my city and disband it. In Aurelius' game I got some huts in the beginning, but unfortunately I got only three units, one supported so I disbanded it and the other two were later killed by barbarians. If you have read my log you will have noticed that I got no more huts after 1500 BC because of this.

I would be willing to look at your log and give some hints.

[Aurelius]

Me too, War4ever!

You get the code of laws and ceremonial burial and alphabet and for some reason, you don't even get a choice that includes monarchy sometimes! Dat kills me!

Oh, War, one of these days, I'm going to take you up on that multichallenge...I'll show you war, bigbritches.

[Caesar the Great]

I'll be posting my log later today. It is MUCH EASIER to get alliances and tribute in 2.42 trust me. If Paul was trying it on MGE, he would probably still hold the record but it might be somewhere around 1840 or so. The extra money really makes a difference. 20 years for me and I'm not even a very experienced player. BTW I'm hosting an OCC MGE, probably on emp or king, diety would just be slaughter. If anyone is interested in joining this game there are still 2 openings. I'm not exactly sure how its going to work with huts from cities, but its probably going to be that you must rushbuy a settler the second turn. The rules will be discussed in detail before the game.

I'll be posting my log here. I have to go buy a few things in the city and then I'll post the logs. Thanks Paul.

[Paul]

Crow, as Caesar said I use v2.42

[Sten Sture]

Having played the 4whales game on both MGE and v2.42 now a few times, I am not sure which is easier. MGE seems to give bigger trade bonuses and individual techs research faster if the AI is near tech-wise, which in my mind comes close to balancing out the aggressiveness of the AI. In 2.42 it is pretty easy to get a bunch of alliances and gifts or tribute, and a fool proof choke point is not as essential.

I haven't recorded the "list of data" numbers for the tech advances, but maybe one of these days...
[This message has been edited by Sten Sture (edited January 04, 2000).]

[Caesar the Great]

Clearly it has been established that the AI is nicer and you can get gifts from 4 to 5 civs every 5 turns. This leads to a lot of money. Which will generally mean faster techs. I have recorded the tech requirements for diety on MGE. Tommorrow I will do the same thing for 2.42. I'll see if my list was archived, (or else I'll be pissed off at the adminstration it took 2 hours). Well I'll see. Here is my abbreviated log.

4000 BC Start Alpha, BW
3950 BC Hut 25 gold
3950 BC City
3650 BC Hut CoL
3450 BC Hut Currency
3000 BC Hut 50 gold
2100 BC Monarchy
1750 BC Colussus
600 BC Republic
60 AD Shakespeare's
160 AD Trade Route
300 AD Trade Route
260 AD Copernicus'
820 AD Isaac Newtons
1120 AD Democracy
1852 AD Space Flight
1853 AD Apollo
1874 AD Launch
1889 AD Arrival

[crowatbitemedotcom]

Paul -

Caesar says that 2.42 is a must for a record, is this the version you use or do you use MGE? I use MGE and my best win is late 20th cent (yes, I suck... )

[Paul]

I probably could use some more information, such as when you built improvements and your complete list of science discoveries. However, from what I can see it looks good until you get republic in 600 BC. After that I see that you get Shakespeare before Copernicus. I always try to get Copernicus first. Also, you seem to be getting your trade routes set uo rather late. I also usually go for democracy at around the same time as Newton. I also see from your log that you only mention two trade routes. I assume that you just forgot to mention the third one? Having three trade routes is very important and you should want to have them established in the BC era or at least not to long after 1 AD.

[SmartFart]

Now i get it
Is there any patch around to turn MGE into 2.42?
In my last OCC game i gave Russians 7 techs. Their attitude turned into 'Enthusiastic' but they didn't even wanted to sign a peace treaty.
I've managed to land 1880AC. Sum of all my gifts/tribute was about 500 gold.
Early in the game,when i was still in despotism,AI civs simply haven't any gold. In that stage of game they do pay me a tribute,not money but useless techs (map making,horse) and that only distracted me on my way to monarchy/republic.
By the way,Caesar,are you still willing to try multiplayer OCC?
If so,please contact me via icq. You may find my # in my profile. I'll be online today about 6-7 pm est or so.

sf

[crowatbitemedotcom]

Okay, trade routes before 1 AD. I think I know where one of my problems is now Paul, when do you usually go to repub? When I go too early, I end up needing Shakes ASAP, but if I don't I go for Copernicus. Also, in the first 3 trade routes, do you set them up with any city, or do you look for those that demand the goods you have? Also, how often do you replace trade routes when a new commodity becomes available?

Thanks. Sorry for all the questions.

[vik]

Hi, y'all. Relative newbie here, and I used to think I was pretty decent. Got Civ2 for Xmas'99 (I know, but it was a gift), and I read with a lot of interest about the OCC.

Currently I'm fooling around with using one city, but I'm using a custom map with custom bonus terrain and custom goodie hut placement.

Before I ask my question, let me just admire you guys a little bit. Getting to AC by the year 1903 is quite impressive in my book. 1803 is (at this point) unfathomable to me.

Anyways, I tried it last night, but when I got the technologies that allowed you to build SS parts, other, more militarily powerful nations, demanded this. Alliances cancelled, sneak attacks, etc. I know trading technology is important and necessary, but when I gave them this stuff, they all started building the SS faster.

Also, I'm not quite clear on the caravans. After you establish your maximum 3 trade routes, what is the benefit you get from establishing more trade routes (other than some extra cash)?

Any innovative ideas on handling pollution?

I'm having trouble getting my city up to 80+ shields--what are the terrain mods you do to help yourself? All forest?

I appreciate the help, and good luck.

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"...Ain't no smoggy smoke on Rocky Top,
Ain't no telephone bills..."

[This message has been edited by vik (edited January 05, 2000).]

[Paul]

Crow, I go to republic as soon as I get it. You should need a 10 or 20% luxury rate (30% for WLTCD) until you get Shakespeare. For the first three routes I look for cities that demand the goods, but if they are too far away and small I may settle for a closer larger city.

Vik, besides the cash bonus you also get a science bonus when you establish a trade route. The amount of beakers you get is the same as the amount of gold you get. Just check your science advisor (F6) before and after you establish the route and see the difference.

For getting 80+ shields build offshore platform, factory, power plant and manufacturing plant. If that still doesn't get you to 80+ you should mine some grass or plains to forest. Build a railroad first; that goes faster on grass/plains than on forest. Such a large production will result in pollution, that's why you have two engineers running around to clean it up.

To deal with the attacks from other civs it's best to make sure they don't become too advanced in science. A fortress with one or two alpine troops in a chokepoint on good defensive terrain should also help.

[War4ever]

CTG..... sorry i missed the occ game i couldn't connect on my server.... that problem is permanently fixed cause i got CABLE hehehe i am happy now.....

Aurelius i will play you any day and Paul i finally landed in 1893 and could have done earlier but made a few mistakes.... I use MGE and its my first 1800 landing.... ouch i know i suck.....

It felt like this game went almost perfectly so how you ever do better is utterly amazing

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They call me Mr. Fierce