Attention Early Landers/Aggressive Traders: Critiques Needed

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Having read for about a year now the Apolyton Gospel of the Camel, and having read of the astonishing early landings of late, I decided to see if I could knock some time off my landings by being a more effective trader. So I decided to work on my trade game, which is sorely lacking, and I now find myself bewildered. Now, I'd never have the patience for some of the early landings seen here, but I've gone from barely trading at all to trading like crazy, and I've only shaved about 40 turns off my game.

In my last game, for example, I found a good SSC site (2 silk, 2 buffalo, no bad terrain) on a penninsula of generally good land; I built another 13-14 cities and traded like crazy...without much result. True, I had my earliest deity landing date ever -- but 1896 hardly seems that impressive. The thing of it is, I felt like I had a lot going for me in that game, including having maps of nearly everyone else's territory and having Magellan's (and I never build Magellan's!). Most of my cities, except the SSC, built a couple of defenders and a temple when it was necessary, but otherwise built nothing but camels/freight. I also gave away techs galore to my "key civ." And yet, and yet...

So I guess my question is: what's a good general strategy for trade, especially if one's goal is getting ahead in the science race? I've checked the GL, but the trade entries there seem a bit more advanced.

Incidently, my strategy in the last couple of games has been to research Monarchy- Trade- Democracy- Magnetism (since caravels cause unhappiness in demo)- Automobile- Fusion. I've built an SSC, HG, MPE, Magellan's, and Hoover. I've built 12+ cities, but haven't let them get beyond size 8 (except the SSC). I've traded maps early, stayed at peace, built alliances where I could, given away techs. As I said, aside from defenders, a settler, and a temple, my non-ssc citiesonly built camels, and freight was always delivered to demanding cities on another continent when that was possible. Is it possible to suggest improvements based on these sketchy details? If so, I would welcome it. Thanks.

[samson]

Hi Rufus,

First, I think, you need to be clear about what your goal is here. You can't have a coherent strategy without a clear objective. Is your goal to achieve earlier landings? Getting ahead in the science race? Or simply building a lot of camels? Trade is usually not an end in itself, but merely a means to achieving one.

The key to early landing is to focus on science. An SSC, developed early, is the most efficient way to achieve a commanding lead in technology. An ideal SSC site has 4 trade specials (buffalo are not trade specials) and a lot of rivers. The trade specials are important to speed early game research and the river squares (with bridges) are important later. In addition, an SSC needs 3 good foreign trade routes, one of them ASAP. But trade should NOT be your early game focus, that should be getting the SSC wonders and improvements built.

The development priorities for the SSC could be: temple (for early Republic), library, 1st trade route, We Love! up to size 6 or 7, COPERNICUS, university, COLOSSUS, 2nd and 3rd trade routes, aqueduct, colosseum, marketplace, We Love! up to size 12, INU, sewer system, We Love! up to size16. A size16 SSC is usually sufficient and does not require building Shakespeare's Theatre. Another high priority is Bridge Building if your SSC has a good number of rivers.

Your other cities' early caravans should be coming into the SSC to help build the Wonders, not going out for trade. The SSC's first caravan should go out for trade to the closest foreign city you can find - don't worry about demand or size, just get it there fast to get those 4 or 5 additional arrows coming in.

Early research goals should be Monarchy, Trade, Republic, Astronomy, Construction, Bridge Building, Democracy. Then on to Railroad, Gravity, and Automobile.

After you've got the INU built you should be close to 1 turn/tech on a small map and can use freight deliveries to top off your research. On a medium map, you'll be getting 2 turns/tech comfortably. Superhighways will push you into 1 turn/tech.

Regular freight deliveries to overseas cities in the end game can bring in more 1 turn/techs or possibly even 2 techs/turn.

Trade is important for early landing, but not as important as the SSC nor as important as making sure you are paying the minimum cost for advances. That is where tech-gifting and the key civ concept come in. However, paying minimum cost requires you to have more starting techs than your Key Civ. If you started with NO techs, you can't get better than BASE cost for techs. In which case, it's better to play as the PURPLE civ and become SUPREME as quickly as possible. Then you don't need to mess with tech-gifting or beaker counting. You also won't need to worry about contacting the Purple civ, or finding out that the Purples never started.

Focus on the SSC early and forget about building other Wonders. They are just distractions. Once you start getting landing dates you're happy with, do more trading to shave additional turns off.

samson

[EdwardTKing]

Rufus

IMHO a trade stategy requires:

a) an early Republic AND

b) still requires lots of cities

whether you are going for early landing or buying up the world.

By all means research trade after monarchy and before republic; and build caravans under monarchy; but to benefit switch to
republic and up your science rate to the maximum permitted
just before your caravans arrive at cities to establish routes.

Building caravans too early (instead of settlers) or waiting for democracy (instead of republic) are too slow.


Ed

[rah]

"I found a good SSC site (2 silk, 2 buffalo, no bad terrain) on a penninsula of generally good land"

Better trade specials will help, Buffalo's just don't cut it.
Rivers, and Ocean help alot also.

"since caravels cause unhappiness in demo" Huh?

And finally, don't stop at the 3rd trade route, Build more, they will keep improving the situation.

RAH

[Paul]

Originally posted by rah
"since caravels cause unhappiness in demo" Huh?

Any unit with an attack value that's not zero causes unhappiness in democracy. That includes triremes, caravels and frigates. Galleons and Transports are the only ships that don't cause unhappiness.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Hmm. A lot of what's suggested here is stuff I'm already doing, but two things seem important if my goal is earlier landing (to answer samson's first question): a better city site and early republic. A better city site I understand (I know buffalo aren't ideal, they're just better than, say, iron). Early republic, however. is something I find vexing, especially with regard to happiness. If I only have an SSC and a few other cities, I'm generally okay; but if I follow my inclinations (and/or EdwardTKing's advice) and build lots of cities, the combination of the riot factor and corruption siphoning away luxuries just kills me. As it is, I build HG to accomodate early expansion, but even that doesn't seem like enough. What am I missing

[Scouse Gits]

Rufus, IMHO the honest answer is, "not a lot". Even here at Apolyton the number of players that have achieved pre 19th century deity landings is probably only twenty or thirty - and most of those are in some sense 'special' games - for example - I have a 1518 to my name, but it is OCC - I don't keep records, but I suspect that my earliest 'normal game' landing is sometime in the late 19th century - now, I may not be typical - I generally go for conquest anyway - BUT unless you are a solo or a samson with total single minded concentration - the other temptations of the game - let's explore a bit more, let's tip that hut, why not take out that undefended city, what a splendid city site - I must send a settler inevitably eat up turns - doing the arithmetic, a late 19th century landing has used almost exactly double the number of turns that a record breaking first century landing would take. This cannot be bad ...

[La Fayette]

Rufus
1) If you care for early landing:
Follow samson advice (he's the best) + borrow one of his record maps (or some kind of equivalent, with whales instead of buffaloes)
2) If you don't really care for early landing:
Come and play scenarios with us. It's great fun, and trade is very important (for example in ww2 or Rome).


(the guy to the left is Rah, the one to the right is SG, the one in the middle is Rufus, trying to learn trade from warmongers)

[rah]

Opps, thought he meant caravans, another senior moment.
But with any decent amount of arrows, supporting one in the field shouldn't be a problem. Especially with a harbor and lots of ocean squares.

"the guy to the left is Rah, the one to the right is SG, the one in the middle is Rufus, trying to learn trade from warmongers"
LOL
If you're going to war when you're in Rep or Dem, you'd better have your trade act together.

RAH

[Scouse Gits]

Originally posted by La Fayette

(the guy to the left is Rah, the one to the right is SG, the one in the middle is Rufus, trying to learn trade from warmongers)

Ah - but which SG? The Grand Admiral actually knows what he is talking about - I'm just a rabid aggressive rodent.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by La Fayette

(the guy to the left is Rah, the one to the right is SG, the one in the middle is Rufus, trying to learn trade from warmongers)

LOL! And I'd play scenarios with you all, Lafayette, but I only have ToT -- an oversight I may correct on my next trip to the States.

SG - point taken. As I said, I'm not really interested in the kinds of early landings samson and solo can achieve; I'm content to look upon them agog. What I am interested in is seeing how different strategies work. While I remain puzzled about early republic (maybe that's a different thread), this has been very helpful.

[Marquis de Sodaq]

One aspect of advancing quickly thru the tech tree is overlooked by many players. I didn't discover it until I'd already honed my playing style for a long time. In the BC years, even a few extra arrows make the difference between 10 turns and 6 turns per tech. With just 8 cities, changing one grassland with roads to ocean in each city can almost halve your research time. Using a trade special boosts it even more. Spice is my favorite, as it doesn't cost you a food as a trade-off. It can't be understated how big a difference that makes over the course of the first eighty+ turns. Your population might be 680,000 instead of 700,000, but you have five more techs to show for it.

[samson]

Marquis and SG both make an excellent points.

The early game is your best chance to save turns. Both good and bad choices are magnified here. Squeeze every arrow you can from your cities in the beginning to maximize your science.

The beaker counter's rule of thumb: count every beaker as long as you can still see them in the science progress display.

Focus on your objective. Don't get distracted by the myriad possibilities the game presents. But don't be so rigid as to ignore opportunities either.