Saturday Night (USA) Diplo Game

[Hydey]

After much thought, I am pleased to make this offer to the innocent people of south america, Your previous rular failed to protect and your new ruler, the powerful africans may be tied up with delicate negotiations, so the Ukranian armed forses offer to take up peace keeping in the americas with troops stationed in south american cities preventing further useless bloodshed.

[Frank Johnson]

I wouldn't mind seeing some level headed Euro troops in South America....but peacekeepers implies theres some sort of peace to keep doesn't it?

[Rasputin]

did another diplo game jsut turn nasty or ami missing the diplo in all thjis !!!!

[deity]

Pity about the golf!

Originally posted by Berzerker
Bummer

LOL.. golf sounds like a better alternative now

[deity]

No alliance.

Originally posted by Makeo
Clearly deities words are false. Why else would he remain allies with the cantonese and south americans. Both allied with the north americans. While the deity/north american alliance is not formalised it exists all the same.

How can deity deplore the actions of the north americans and keep his allies. Obvioulsy deities words have no value and are simply a soundbite for the gullible press.

We have no alliance nor any contact with the Atlanteans. We heard about a plan to attack the Carts but were not involved in it.

We deplore the action.

However, what is far more deplorable is the emotinal over-reaction by Scipio to the attack. If someone attacks you it is generally fair to say that you can attack back; but to attack a neighbour you are at peace with just because you can't get at the Atlanteans is intolerable.

I repeat, any civ that leaves their nation undefended is asking for trouble, even in diplo areas. For a 7th ranked civ to knock out the top civs undefended capital and another city with a phalanx is understandeable in pure terms but still deplorable. For the top civ to wildly kick out in such an irresponsible manner defies belief and for the Aztecs to support such actions is a clear statement that the world is faced with an axis of evil.

We now have the Carts the size of two huge civs allied to the Aztecs, also huge and allied to a very solid Ukranian civ.

And what are they taking on?

The now 6th ranked Atlanteans and decimated Americans, both of whom may not exist after the next session...

That leaves just the DEITIANS and Cantonese

In any realistic diplo world such a situation would be intolerable and alliances would break to restore world order.

Captain Deiticus appeals to the nations of the world to realise their fate, all of them, before it is too late!

[deity]

OOC

OK troops, I gotta air a few things OOC.

Firstly, I believe fodder to be an honest player and decent guy. None of us should make any suggestions that any of us are doing anything 'irregular'.

However, I think fodder played the game wrongly, based on a belief that he had been made a fool of by the Atlantean attack, so I don't think we have realistic strategic planning unfolding here. It's more of a grudge thing now and that makes for a bad game. There are not enough posts or rationale to back up actions taken from just about all of us, particularly the Carts.

Also, I think it was bad form that Berzerker captures back 4 or 5 cities just before fodder's turn, but fodder drops connection before Berz realises and hits enter so the AI took over the Carts.
So, to be fair we go back to the autosave and on Berz turn in the battle re-plays with the Carts he only gets 1 or two cities back!

If you missed this point fodder you should keep an eye on the king chat and the dialog. I said at the time it was not right but got no reply. Berz eventually said don't worry about it as you relentlessly kept on attacking. You should have ceded those cities that Berz had taken, at least. That was two or three cities you had to rush buy for further attacking and the whole reason we restarted was because the AI took your civ's turn!

Sorry, but it sux and I had to say something. The game is distorted somewhat.

A few of you keep saying that it was never a diplo game but in every way it has been except for the lack of posting.

Just because Dang is posturing and folks leave their cities undefended is still part of it. The only thing that has gone off the rails diplo-wise is the Carts attack on the Americans.

You can't see a diplo game as a mathematical thing about balance of power and just attack the most convenient civ without ANY dialog or diplomacy at all! Ridiculous.

But I really want to hear fodder's story ASAP!!!

[deity]

I'm still thinking about all this!

OK, I thought we agreed on a three city limit in war? That was my assumption.

I vote that this is the rule and was the rule and that we go back to the carts save just before his invasion so that he can still attack as before with complete surprise but only take three cities.

This rule at least puts a limit on the lack of diplomacy involved and gives the aggressed nation a chance to fight in a realistic way. Also, it will be more fun and keep all 7 players involved. Berz has been too good a sport.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Rasputin
did another diplo game jsut turn nasty or ami missing the diplo in all thjis !!!!

Originally posted by Deity
A few of you keep saying that it was never a diplo game but in every way it has been except for the lack of posting.

Well I can't speak on the whole game, but from the very beginning when I played in the game I deffinately caught a very non-diplo vibe. People were just putting their head down and building. People got together with alliances, which was good but not unheard of in a non-diplogame. Beyond that I don't think there was much communication and certainly no roleplaying or storytelling.

I know with Berzerker and I starting out the only real thing we talked about was which techs to go for. It seemed like a tribe game rather than a diplogame. Just striving to be biggest and best.

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but I am not at all surprized by what has happened. The Atlantean's attack was with out roleplayed justification. The Cart's response was without justification as well. But of course its not the first time someone has taken over all of South America in a single turn in a diplogame.

[Flatlander Fox]

Roleplayed Justification?

Actually, the attack did have justification, at least in my eyes at the time.

The Ukrainian player was advancing through the Artics,(and this later will be a pain!) and I was nervous that a road up there could be used to attack me. The country I was playing was poor and backwards, and desired noteriety (as a result of being ignored by everybody) and a tech or two.

During the game I had prepared a large statement, which was released as soon as the attack was launched. The contents were the same as the above "powerful get their due" post.

I tried diplomacy with everybody immediately after the attacks,(Somebody even told me to shut up!) because I was poised to strike at other targets as well... If I would have been attacking at random, I would have hit Hydey north of the Atlantean country, because he too had no treaty with me at the beginning of the game. Or even after his treaty, he had an undefended city I could have taken as well as the others.

You are correct about the "tribe" feeling that this game imparts, but as for my small pitiful role in this game, I feel that I didn't screw it up too much!

[Frank Johnson]

Personally I'd feel better if fodder came and rubbed it in our faces instead of just being silent. You can never tell if some people involved give a damn about this game one way or another...

[Hydey]

Re: I'm still thinking about all this!

Originally posted by deity
OK, I thought we agreed on a three city limit in war? That was my assumption.

The 3 city limit was suggested but not agreed to.

That is my recolection anyway.

[Hydey]

Re: Roleplayed Justification?

Originally posted by Flatlander Fox
, I would have hit Hydey north of the Atlantean country, because he too had no treaty with me at the beginning of the game. Or even after his treaty, he had an undefended city I could have taken as well as the others.

Yes I did have one undefended city , It was a new city and in a diplo game with peace treaty signed with all players I took the risk of waiting to build a vet musket to defend that city, all other citys had a vet musket in them so I don't think your phlanx would have taken too many more. The reason we had no treaty at the begining of the game is that we had had no contact, once you contacted me, a treaty was signed.
The peace treaty between Atlantean and Ukranian peoples has remained firm through all this caos.

[CANNON FODDER]

"So a few noblemen and their personal armies set out on a voyage to show the world that we are a nation to be reckoned with"

NAW.....NOBODY WOULD BELIEVE THAT

[CANNON FODDER]

"Yes it is amazing how some of the greatest nations on earth do so little to protect their citizens"

NAW....TOO REPETITIVE

[CANNON FODDER]

Alright Deity....I will respond to you with my "roleplayed justification" later in the week. But 1st.....why dont we review some of the previous threads....in particular look at Flatlanders last thread where he describes his " roleplayed justification"....:

1) " the Ukranian player was advancing through the Artics(sic) and this will later be a pain"

Yeah, that sounds really horrible but how does that relate to attacking Carthage.

2)"the country I was playing was poor and backwards and desired noteriety(sic)"

Well...Atlanteans certainly achieved that...gee..maybe Carthage could become notorious too

3)"he had an undefended city I could have taken"

Well...I have been in as many "diplogames "as any of you and I never knew that having an undefended city was a cassus belli. Lets now do the math....on the turn I was attacked I had garrisoned 9 of 11 coastal cities with vet musketeers or better...almost 80%(BTW...the only cities I hadnt garrisoned were on the Med. Sea...Atlanteans had never been in the Med previous to that...guess who they got their map from to see where my cities were). When I attacked Berz.....he had 18 cities and 9 units(of which at least 1 or 2 were ships) so less than 50% of his cities were garrisoned. Using your allies twisted sense of logic...who had the greater cause to be attacked.