Diplogames? How about a "war-game" From the best war in history.

[OzzyKP]

Ok now settle down you two. To bad we don't have two open spots on opposing teams because it sounds like a fun rivalry is brewing between you two.

I am curious why you two are fighting over Britain when the United States is free.

And it looks like we will be playing by email because it is too damn big of a game, so there isn't really any scheduling conflicts possible. Though if one of you objects to playing by email the other can have it. Or any other conflicts arise and one of you leaves.

I'm open to hear what Zylka's ideas are for resolving this dispute if you both still want it, but since this is a fairly open game, first come first serve GNGSpam can have Britain since he "called it first".

Though both of you should be aware that USA is open, and then we can be ready to play. (Personally Britain would be my last choice, but oh well)

[sekong]

Why the link you provided can't work? I can't d/l it. Anyway, If you guys still have a spot open, let me know. Play by email is fine with me. ANd I don't really care which nation I will leading. I will bring them GLORY anyway.

[OzzyKP]

Hmm, thats too bad, well if anyone needs the scenario get it from me via icq. My number is in my profile. Probably better that way anyways, i think there are different versions floating around out there.

[OzzyKP]

Well i read the thread you gave me, and it looked fine to me. I don't see any problems that would hamper us.

Keep in mind that the people playing in that game were the people who created the darn thing, so they knew exactly what to move where and knew all the details that made it work. I doubt that any of us have such a detailed knowledge of this scenario. So for a game of normal people just bashing each other, i think we'll do fine.

[Zylka]

Ok, I'll take the U.S.

I just have a soft spot for Britain from my axis and allies days, and because I'm a loyalist Canuck zealot

[Zylka]

Whoops, just noticed that Sekong asked for the last spot. Have fun guys

[Smash]

I think you side stepped DaveV's warning a little too hastily.
Do you have any idea what a human can do as Japan on turn 1?They can take almost half the map.The US is toast if Japan is led by humans.So is Russia.Moscow can be taken on turn 1!...and then it will be Germany's turn...game over.

one suggestion is to have a 1 turn grace.

[OzzyKP]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Smash on 04-25-2001 07:19 PM</font>
I think you side stepped DaveV's warning a little too hastily.
Do you have any idea what a human can do as Japan on turn 1?They can take almost half the map.The US is toast if Japan is led by humans.So is Russia.Moscow can be taken on turn 1!...and then it will be Germany's turn...game over.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

yea, a human japanese player can take over half the map, but they are all worthless cities in the south pacific. All the decent cities are in the USA anyways, and Japan can't touch them. All taking those cities will do is necessitate Japan spreading its forces thin defending them all. And how can Moscow be taken by the Japanese? I don't see much potential for the Japs to make much progress in Russia. Germany can do some good damage against USSR, but then risks loosing it all next turn by the counter attack from both sides.

Britain and USSR can do quite alot of damage to the axis, and then once USA builds up its army it could almost take on the Axis itself due to its massive production. Especially with 3 players on 2, i think this game is very well balanced. If you want to have a Chinese player or Neutral player to join in to side with the Allies, then fine, but I think the game is fairly balanced.

[Berzerker]

Japan will get crushed, they just lack the techs to sustain a war. Their ultimate weapon is the kamikaze

[Smash]

I guess it will depend on A.who plays the axis and B.how they choose to play.

I can tell you that it possible for Japan to capture most of Russia including Moscow,China,most of the US,the entire Pacific,Australia and make inroads into Africa on turn 1.Not easy,but possible.

Japan has all the tech it needs and freights to deliver on turn 1 to South America.This extra gold does not help the allies position.Turn 2 can be worse.....

The US loses it's entire pacific fleet on turn 1 also.Midway falls,Hawaii falls.Now Japan can reach mainland US only needing to move maybe 10-12 units for this.Transport bring up paratroops and.....then chain in.....pillage the road near....I mean most of the US units aren't even fortified.Japan also starts with a good number of imperial marines(iirc) with the amphibious assault flag.

All this with the allied advantage rules.txt.

I mentioned a one turn grace in the other games of 2194 which was ignored for pretty good reason,but it went pretty much as I thought it would.Especially with Xin playing Japan.Game over real quick.

It would have to be something like axis use end turn without doing anything.Allies are allowed to build,fortify and possibly move(not sure here) but not attack or pillage.


<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Smash (edited April 26, 2001).]</font>

[OzzyKP]

Not to be rude, but that is ridiculous.

Unless we are playing different versions (and i think we may) there is absolutly no way this is possible. While perhaps in a perfect world with all battles going Japan's way, and a total knowledge of which units to use to attack which cities in which order this may have a slim and remote chance of happening. But even then there is simply no way for any of Japan's units to reach some of those places. No way in hell can a single Japanese unit make it anywhere near Africa, must less past India. Plus, most of Japan's ground units are either down in the South Pacific, physically unable to reach Russian cities, and most of Japan's units in general are navy or airforce which don't have the capability of striking more than a very few Russian cities.

Is it possible you played this game with double movement? That could make a huge difference.

I deffinatly think we are talking about two different games, either that or you are delerious because what you said is simply not possible, even if some game master were playing.

[Smash]

nope its the same scenario.2194 days of War by Nemo.

You are right.Africa isn't until turn 3 or 4.

Look at the path thru San Fran,Salt Lake,Denver,Omaha etc.What stops a massive invasion?

I won't go thru the whole process but for Russia,step 1 is Imperial marines at Vladivostok followed by Zeros and bombers but yes it will take more than 1 turn to take Moscow.

30+ cities is quite doable.

[OzzyKP]

Zylka, if you want USA it is yours. Sekong called it as much as you did initially. Since you were in on this earlier, despite trying to get Britain, its still yours. If you don't want it then Sekong can play.

Which would make the final tally at this point the following:

Axis
----------

Germany - Ozzy
Japan - Moker

Allies
----------

Britain - GNGSpam
Russia - Easthaven
USA - Zylka


So now we are ready to play. Has anyone done a PBEM game before? What exactly do we do, i don't want to screw this up. Someone give us a PBEM primer.

And how do we want to handle event files? I never paid much attention to them before, but last night i looked through them, and it could really change the game. One thing about the event files is it helps to balance out the game in single player, but if we all are playing but doing it at sepparate times it could screw it up. Lets say i start a single player game as germany, when i kill a specific russian unit they get several replacement units, or every turn the british get free units, etc. This is cool to have in single player, but if this game is sent to russia then they have all sorts of free units, and then germany gets free units too. So all players would be dependent on the crap load of free units they all get rather than having to build them themselves. Which i feel is part of the bonus of the allies, especially USA. If everyone gets free units anyways because of event files, then USA getting great production doesn't mean quite as much.

Some of the events are really cool though, so i'm reluctant to just get rid of them. But if anything is going to unbalance the game it might be them. Perhaps we could get Nemo & Alex to tweak them a bit to be more playable with multiplayer. Or one of us could do it.

I dunno, let me know what you all think.

[OzzyKP]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Smash on 04-26-2001 04:53 AM</font>

Look at the path thru San Fran,Salt Lake,Denver,Omaha etc.What stops a massive invasion?
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Well it is physically impossible for Japanese land troops to reach the mainland till at least the second turn, which gives the USA enough time to build up some defense.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>I won't go thru the whole process but for Russia,step 1 is Imperial marines at Vladivostok followed by Zeros and bombers but yes it will take more than 1 turn to take Moscow.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Many turns to make it that far, plus i imagine the Russian player won't be sitting idly by, he'll be conducting a counter attack.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>30+ cities is quite doable.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Yes, it is, but all those cities are piddly population 2, production 1 cities in the south pacific. All Japan can really get right away are the island cities and China. Which is how it happened in the real War anyways. Japan conquered all the islands quite early in the war, but didn't have the resources to fight a long war and the "sleeping bear" of the Americans built up their forces and took it all back. That is entirely possible in this game. Plus give it a few turns, and American technology will certainly surpass the Japanese and they will have a great edge. Zylka is a pretty good player, he'll do fine.

I think the game is balanced. I had to do this same kind of talk with Moker to convince him Japan had a chance, because he thought it was weighted too far to the Americans.

[Smash]

hehehe..thats why he snapped up Japan.

Oh well,good luck and have fun.