Diplogame faq and multiplayer reference guide

[KenThur]

Dr G: as a start-to-finish vet of the epic, "Big Diplo II", i can shed some light.
But first a Q 2 U: Is your doctorate in "Slacking"?

As for this "mental sport"...
For the most part, start a diplo game as U would any game.
A> KNOW WHAT THE SETTINGS ARE. Particularly what map parameters were used to create the world.
B> Take the time/turns to find a good / great capitol city location.
C> Hut-hunt with reckless abandon = more of everything U will need, including tech's for trading.
*qualifier: barb setting; if less than raging or restless there is very little reason to worry about protecting early cities(also learn about WHEN barbs start showing up in ANY game)
D> By definition, any human U make contact with = a "friend" to start trading & coordinating tech's with... find others asap!
*qualifer: if another player is totally ignoring normal defense (ie, U find his empty city) U should use that as a "bargaining chip". If he is not willing to share something for sparing his city... then take it. Diplomacy isn't just about love & kisses, it IS about winning in the end. Note: U can always give it back & in many cases, will HAVE TO... but U have taught him & others a lesson (plus U get to keep the gold & tech that he wouldn't give U)
E> DO NOT immediately trade maps with anyone. That is a very valuable piece of info & should be thought thru & negotiated before sharing. Even when establishing preliminary borders, i would be careful. Ultimately U may find a better, more lucrative relationship.
F> There WILL BE a long run in this game, so think in those terms. Do things like build roads toward other civ's U find & DO WHAT U SAY U WILL.
G> Trade will end up THE most POWERFUL force on this world. So become friends/allies with the civ's FARTHEST away & on other continents. (Major reason for hint "E>" above).
H> Talk / suck up / flatter the other rulers. Both in game chat & even better, in your posts here!
*for example: Doctor, you are one of THE smartest, sharpest, best Civ players i'v ever had the pleasure to read here on these posts. Your magnanimous generosity & enlightened rule of your Civ is a credit to you, your dynasty, & the great citizens of ________! What a GUY! (Now, about those borders & trades we were discussing...)
I> Use these forum posts for the other extreme also; if U are pissed off, feel used, or just want posture yourself in preparation/justification for a war of _________. Do it or "hint" at it in the open. Give others a chance to respond... for or against. The WORST thing any ruler can do in a diplo game is SNEAK attack. Nothing else comes close to making a bunch of instant enemies & ruining the game! ):
J> Have fun with it. Help the good guys & gang up on the bad guys.
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"Hm-m-m, doubt me you will?"
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by KenThur (edited August 05, 2000).]</font>

[CapTVK]

Noooooooo!, some of the links are missing!!!

[CapTVK]

Everytime I bump "tales from the front-II" thread there's a massive response to start a new diplogame, coincidence?

Anyway a word of caution: "Take your time and get organized!"
Make it clear by what rules your playing and what's not allowed (cheating, specific chances to the units etc..). You don't need to spell out everything, just make it clear to the players.


One piece of advice when your playing on the worldmap. Give all your naval vessels (tiremes and up) 2 extra movement points and some extra HP/ATT/DEF here and there (I'll leave that one open to discussion). Naval power is relatively undervalued in a diplo game but with these settings the balance is restored.

[CapTVK]

Once every few months this question keeps popping up. Time for a bump!

[KenThur]

Testing, 1,2,3
Do U still have me in here?
=========================
Well, i'll be dogged... me & my password are still up here. (damn, don't U'll ever clean out the old stuff?!)

Couldn't resist peeking at the old addiction again.

Hi, guy(& gals)! Amazing isn't it, how this game just keeps on, keeping on. Whew!
Wish i was retired or could win the lotto so i could devout the time this hobby/sport requires.
Darned if Cap isn't still dredging up this (great) old Diplo stuff. If i had known U were going to perpetuate these posts forever, i would have spell-checked & cleared up my ramblings!
Which i now must do... so new readers of these don't think i'm THAT dumb.

PS: that added features & enhancements are amazing. NICE WORK gentlemen!

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"Hm-m-m, doubt me you will?"

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by KenThur (edited August 05, 2000).]</font>

[CapTVK]

Nice to see you still pass by on occasions Kenthur, still minding the store?

Maybe I should also add to the FAQ that playing a diplogame from start to finish acts like a very effective shock treatment against civ addiction?
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by CapTVK (edited August 05, 2000).]</font>

[carnide_]

Marvelous, stunning, excellent job.

Thanx.

[Epik]

I was wondering how the Diplo games were played and I found this excellent post by CapTVK.

However many of the links in his orginal post are dead (Not Found Messages).

Ming... is there any way that you can reactivate those links?

Thanks.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Epik (edited November 18, 2000).]</font>

[OzzyKP]

A few other Diplogames to add to your list:


Tales From the Diplomatic Front V
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum2/HTML/001433.html?152
Perhaps the longest running Diplo game in history (again talking out of my ass no doubt) almost finished, has been going on for 8 months. Lots of great maps and it certainly deserves a nod in Diplo game history.

Tales from the Diplomatic Front - VII
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum2/HTML/001569.html?70
Fun game, kinda fizzled half way through, but it started with some great posts, imho. 'specially proud of the portrayal of the Metalhead empire by yours truly. First game of myself and the Capo. I can't comment on the beginning diplo players, but i regard Capo the best in the field.

Tales from the European Front I
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum2/HTML/001803.html?69
In our ignorance we assumed this was the first European Dip Game, oh well. But i bet this has the best map. Going great so far. Deffinatly one to keep your eye on, posts kinda went sour after Capo left, but still a very fun game.

Tales from the Ultimate Diplomatic Front I
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum2/HTML/001852.html?29
First diplo game played on the new Giga map. Has the makings of a great game, some great posts and involvement by the players.



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Ozzy - King of Metal
Ozzy - Hungarians in Eurodip I
Ozzy - Proud Sayen member
Ozzy - Prez of NYRA, http://nyra.ecg.net

[OzzyKP]

Well after putting up the newer links i realized that none of the old links provided by CapTVK worked anymore. I don't know what happened to all of them, perhaps some were lost, but a good number were archived by the friendly Apolyton staff. Those that are archived and available can be viewed below:


a game of diplomacy
http://apolyton.net/forums/Archives/...-2-000572.html

AIs in Diplomatic games
http://apolyton.net/forums/Archives/...-2-001402.html

An Open Letter to All Nations
http://apolyton.net/forums/Archives/...-2-000611.html

Diplomacy, a new twist
http://apolyton.net/forums/Archives/...-2-001299.html

European Tales from the diplomatic front
http://apolyton.net/forums/Archives/...-2-000751.html

HaHa Diplomatic Suckers
http://apolyton.net/forums/Archives/...-2-000752.html

Linking the diplomatic threads
http://apolyton.net/forums/Archives/...-2-001264.html

More Tales from the Diplomatic Front
http://apolyton.net/forums/Archives/...-2-000699.html

Tales from the Diplomatic Front IV
http://apolyton.net/forums/Archives/...-2-001306.html

Tales from the diplomatic front
http://apolyton.net/forums/Archives/...-2-000603.html

Tales from the front II, in 3D
http://apolyton.net/forums/Archives/...-2-000466.html



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Ozzy - King of Metal
Ozzy - Hungarians in Eurodip I
Ozzy - Proud Sayen member
Ozzy - Prez of NYRA, http://nyra.ecg.net

[CapTVK]

Whoa, you don't visit a forum for awhile and suddenly a thread you made is back in teh spotlight. I haven't payed much attention the the FAQ as most questions seemed to be answered anyway but it's glad to see some new blood paying attention.

Thanks for the links guys, I'll start work on ver 0.31. Anything else I should add?

[The Capo]

Thanks for the nod Ozzy, I kinda blow at Civ, but I love to play Diplogames becuase I can almost talk my way out of anything.

I think you should talk about the idea of plotting out borders early, in most of the (3) Diplogames I have been in, everyone had made agreements such as:

France: I want to own India.

Mongolia: I want to own Indonesia.

France: Deal

Now neither of these civs would actually have had a stake in these areas, but they felt comfortable enough to "garuntee" them to eachother in the sense that they would not interfere. Often this leads to war with eachother (in this case since the territory is so close) or with outside civs, say the Persians and Japanese had previously made a similar agreement with eachother, and both sides wish to hold their deals. The forms of treaties should be discussed in the next version. You have trade pacts, which outline where caravans may go, you have your technology pacts which are basically agreements to help eachother either a) achieve a specific tech, or b) generally achieve a high tech parity over the others.

I also notice that a lot of players make the mistake of thinking that their "Monarchy" is a liberal institution, you find comments like "I do not force my people into anything" being said by Monarchs, which is all well and good since we are in America, but its no fun to deal with Monarchs that act like Presidents. I think some guidelines for doing this should be discussed in your next post so the rookies can learn to be a bit more realistic and thus fun in games.

The same goes for everything else. In Ultimate Dip right now, I am the leader of the Europeans, I am a Monarch, but I continue to have differant characters such as "The Pope" "The General (Napoleon)" "The opposition" all kinds of characters, and some players don't treat the seperate characters as seperate. Everyone to them is Europe, which is kinda a drag, but its fun to play differant people and actually assume differant roles as differant kings.

And finally, since this topic was opened in the first place, I say that we should set a date sometime in the near future (maybe a few months from now) for the biggest and best Diplogame ever, there is a really great Gigamap out there (not mine, which sucks) that really looks like the actual globe, it was very well done, and I think we should look it over, make appropriate changes and use that.

------------------
"We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."

-Winston Churchill


"Ceterum censo Carthaginem esse delendam"
"Also I think that Carthage must be destroyed"

-Cato the Elder, Roman Statesmen


One Love.

[OzzyKP]

Capo, I too had thoughts of starting a new diplo game (despite the fact we are both in one currently). And yea it may be awhile before it happens, but I don't want to just pick up random people for this one, i want to carefully select everyone to make sure we have experienced diplo gamers, people with stable connections and stable schedules we can count on from week to week, skilled posters and people who will play their role the best and make the game as enjoyable as it can be.

I suggest we take every precaution with this game, change the rules.txt to increase the ship movement and any other tweaking we should do. And honestly i really wouldn't want the Giga map, it is waay too big. While peace is nice, it can be boring if you have a whole game of it. And wars mostly occur when you are pinched for land, in the giga map you can go on forever. I think a standard world map would be best. You can tweak that if you wish to make it more realistic or whatever.

But i certainly want the two of us in the game. CapTVK you can get in on this, sounds like you are a veteran in the field of diplo games and could guide us through this one. Also you could recommend some good players who are at the top of diplomatic games and can make this the best ever.

As for a tip for the next FAQ, i'd suggest reducing the cost of caravans, in my opinion caravans are an under utilized part of the game, and especially diplo games it would be nice to have greater trade going on between nations.

Also there seems to be almost a reluctance to war in the diplo games i've played. Which takes alot of the fun out of it. I guess the truth of the matter is that in war everyone looses, so those who want to 'win' sit peacefully by themselves and don't get involved, which gets to be boring.

And as Capo said, the players really need to get in the role and frame of mind of Diplo games. Anything that a player can do to go outside the boundries of the game and more into real life helps. I like the idea of holding a position and charging a toll to go past, like the panama and suez canals. Or taking out loans from other players, or 'investing' in their empires like i did with the Spanish in Euro Dip.

And i think the tech tree should be slowed down alot, especially later techs. It starts out ok, but then towards the middle-end of the game new techs come every couple turns and i think it spoils the game. Some of those middle units just become obsolete before you can really get a chance to produce them and use them in war. Dragoons loose out to Cavalry real quick. I think it should be slowed down, which will make the game last longer too, which is a good thing.

And more insentives to post, somehow.


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Ozzy - King of Metal
Ozzy - Hungarians in Eurodip I
Ozzy - Proud Sayen member
Ozzy - Prez of NYRA, http://nyra.ecg.net

[The Capo]

I agree 100% with everything you said except for the idea of war. I think that war is something that should and will happen in every Diplogame, however I don't find it a necessity to make war to keep things interesting. When I play, war is usually my last resort, even if I am heavily militarizing my borders, and threatening people, they are really just empty resolutions. I will only go to war with you if I feel that it is needed for me to continue existing or continue with the power I have, and I never go to war with anyone unless I am assured that I can take a substancial amount of cities without retaliation within a few short turns.

I also don't want to put up a facade, I am not too great an MP player, well I wasn't. Ozzy you can atest to this, but in all of the Diplogames I was in, while I remained a strong diplomatic presence in every one, I was always the weakest and "stupidest" of the tribes involved. I don't know whether it is due to unskilled players or what, but in UltraDip I am easily the strongest country, as well as the most diplomatic, which puts me in a very good situation.

I think that the Diplogame will become an important aspect of Civilization, mainly because the game wasn't created to be a total war game. Diplomacy was always one facit of the game that Sid wanted to be a major part, but due to the weak diplomacy of the original he more or less garnished the attentions of the warmongers, which didn't hurt him in the sense of pain and loss, but did make strides towards hurting the Civ 2 Community. The reason I like Diplogames is quite simple; Silent deuls are so unfufilling, I play Civ because I like to trade, I like tech races, I like alliances, I like Diplomacy and I do even like war but not every damn turn.

The Diplogame is Civ how its meant to be played, which is why I like it. Well I should probably get to the point here; I think it was either me or Ozzy who proposed we have a big diplogame sometime in the near future. Actually, since most of us are in College (I hope) we can have it start up right after Christmas becuase we will have a month off of school. I think it would serve our purposes best if we had a new map for this game, not giga but normal sized, and a better representation of the world. If we can't find/accomplish that the world.mp should work out fine. As for the players, well I don't really want to intervene in that area, I don't find my self as exactly the cream of the crop in this place anyway. I would be glad to be involved in this diplogame, but I don't want to dictate my presence over someone who may be better than I am. So I wash my hands of the player list in this one Oz.

As for the tribes involved, I think we should have it that everyone picks their country, and since I will make this a scenario (to add more pleasing graphics ,maybe new units?) I can put any country at all in this game. But the rule should be no more than two tribes to a continent.

I want to add some new units and techs to this to make things interesting, in Ultradip we changed the Tech Rate so we weren't in space in 1796, and its working out rather well actually.

I think we should increase the rate of ship movment definantly, I am going to add more units to this game, it will make things fresher, and I like things when they are fresh. (That was by far the lamest thing I have ever put on this board).

So yes I propose Diplo _?_ start at around January 1st, and Oz you can get the players.

------------------
"We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."

-Winston Churchill


"Ceterum censo Carthaginem esse delendam"
"Also I think that Carthage must be destroyed"

-Cato the Elder, Roman Statesmen


One Love.

[sekong]

BUMP,