The MP forums have gone Diplo-Crazy!!!!

[CapTVK]

Lot's of proposals and questions in this thread, I'll try to answer a few of them.


The Capo

Yes, my name is indeed is CapTVK, it's acronym in fact.

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I guess what I am trying to say is that we should do something with Diplogames, maybe create a seperate area in the forums?

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Not really necessary, as Ming stated, this isn't one of the busiest forums. You basically have everything you need to make a good diplothread in UBB. You've got typeface to make your point[*] and there's the IMG tag to include pictures.

OzzyKP

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I think selecting players is the most important part of it, diplo games have fallen apart because of people dropping out and people not truly understanding the concept and playing 'wrong' also it becomes discouraging when there is only one or two players making great posts and the rest are just ignoring that aspect of the game. We need to find 7 players who will be in it for the long run and who will play in the most enlightened capacity of diplo games.

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You'll need more than seven in fact, it's inevitable that some people will drop out due to time, kids, natural disasters, you get the picture. If enough people are interested you shouldn't have much trouble getting a replacement. That's why keeping the quality of the posts up to scratch is important.

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I suggest a large world map
7 human players
1x1x
slowed down tech tree for a longer more intersting game
increased movement for ships
any other delightful tweaking that capo and the rest of us can come up with

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Those are the usual settings for a diplogame and I concur with increasing the movement rate of ships. Capo also proposed making caravans cheaper but i'm against that. Caravans are powerful enough already, their power only becomes clear once they start moving in numbers $$$.


suas333

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good point. In the 2 diplogames i've had, I was able to jump out to an early lead, but i don't know why that would be a requirement for this diplogame. I am probably overly generous in diplogames but thats because i don't believe there is 1 clear winner. A small civ can be just as fun and just as involved in the politics of the game.

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That's the spirit!
In fact, playing as a smaller civ can be fun if you play your cards right. They can get away with a lot more than any of the major civs could.


drake, Capo

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If you're looking for the most dedicated civ diplo gamers, this would definetly not be a stretch I wouldn't think. Stories are great. But they are even better with some nice pictures in them. For example, screenshots of territories as the game progresses could be quite interesting.........

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For an example of screenshots check the following PDF files here: http://home-1.worldonline.nl/~thomas/pdf/

OzzyKP

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We could go back to that, if anyone really knows what number we are at IX i think, Capo, didn't you start an ill-fated diplo VIII? I know there was a diplo VII, so we are either at diplo IX or VIII. Another thought of mine is i'm getting bored of this whole Tales from the X way of naming these, and perhaps we can show some creativity and break from that altogether. Though it doesn't matter tremendously to me. I believe diplo games started as "An open letter to all nations" or something like that.

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Actually, "An open letter to all nations" was intended as an open letter in one of the first diplogames by John Barbarossa. People were invited to voice their opinion on a certain issues, that also included the readers. Yes, you can post in a diplothread even when you're not in the game!

Suggestion: Seeing that this will probably be the 'last' Civ2MP diplogame. I suggest that we name the thread "An open letter to all nations" to complete the circle.

The Capo

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Alright I have devised a maximum civ toll per continent:

North America - 2
South America - 1
Australia - 1
Europe - 1
Africa - 2
Asia - 3
Antarctica - NONE WHAT SO EVER, seeing as how it doesn't exist in world.mp.

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Just what map are you intending to use? A large map or a giga map? The giga map I've seen has Antarctica on it, and it's filled to the brim with huts. I don't know if there's another world gigamap out there but you shouldn't use this one. Otherwise it just becomes a race for explorers to reach Antarctica.

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I personally do not think that wonder trading should be permitted because it takes away from the wonder itself, and is quite unrealistic in all senses of the idea. The idea of a wonder (in civ terms at least) is that a civilization has achieved a great goal and due to this achievement has recieved some sort of advantage that only they could accomplish, trading wonders tarnishes this real world idea, and I think should not be allowed.

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Don't agree on that point, a player should be free to trade a wonder with another player for other benefits (money, tech etc...). In a diplogame, no civ will get all of the major wonders, so there's room for a leverage. Only switching I don't agree with is single turn happiness switching, two allies could both get the benefit of a happiness wonder this way. This way some of the smaller civs can get a chance to play along with the big guys. SoL can be useful, if you're a medium civ!

And besides wonder switching comes at a price, some city improvements will be lost during the exchange.


That's all for now, I'll come back to this later.

[OzzyKP]

So we have Ozzy and Capo on board for sure in this game, and a suggestion for Frank Johnson. Right now i'd like to extend an invite to CapTVK, with his experience and knowledge in Diplo games would be a good person to add to the cast. Cap, would you like to play?

And i'd like to discuss "unrealistic" names and themes for civs. Cap, i'd like to get some input from you on this as well, but i don't see any reason why I shouldn't be allowed to play as the Metalheads in this game. Capo wants these games to be as realistic as possible in his mind, though of course his relationships and stories between mussilini, alexander the great, and joan of arc aren't entirely realistic either. So why can't someone do an equally creative adaptation of an empire and role play that empire, yet rather than fictionalize accounts about historical figures use musical figures instead?

It doesn't detract from the playability or realism of the game, it is just an altered theme. Capo has it easy being the Europeans with an inexhaustable cast of characters to craft his stories around, but what about someone who wants to play as the Indians, after Ghandi you kinda run out of big names. Zulus? Celts? Can't be done. So while if someone choose to play them, the name of his civ would be accurate to our world everything else would be blindly made up and thus no different from anyone else in the game.

And considering we aren't playing this game in the reality of Earth history, but on an alternate world which we are creating around us, why not then use new names and new themes for empires? Why not then would the Metalheads be a suitable choice?

I can assure you that the game will be more enjoyable for myself and all others as well if i am allowed to play out my game under the identity of a people with a penchant for loud aggresive music. I have an inexhaustable cast of characters and city names taken from the musicians who have made their mark in this musical genre for many years. And I am keeping with the spirit of the game every bit as much as the rest of the players, my characters behave as real world leaders would, with similar statements and actions, but with a creative flair of Metal to flavor things a bit. I can only see how this will add to the game and not detract.

Please go through and read my postings in Diplo VII, i believe i conducted my Metalhead empire in a very proper fashion consistant with the spirit and style of Diplomatic games.

Special civs like this have exisited in other very successful diplo games as well, Diplo V i know had the Libertarians as one of the largest and most successful civs out there. Of course in history there has never been an empire that called themselves Libertarians or named their cities Freedom, Liberty, Justice and the like, but yet i think it doesn't necessarily detract from the game, it is all about how you can role play the specific civ and theme you choose.

Please let me hear your arguements everyone so we can discuss this.


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Ozzy - King of Metal
Ozzy - Hungarians in Eurodip I
Ozzy - Proud Sayen member
Ozzy - Prez of NYRA, http://nyra.ecg.net

[suas333]

I think changing the names of the civ/cities is fine. We don't want to make this game so strict that its boring! As long as the civ is still run, and tales told, as a nation in the world.

[The Capo]

The reason I don't like the Metalheads is becuase to me its kind of weird. There is a European "race" there is an Aztec and Zulu "race" but there is no Metalhead "race", its complicated, but that's why I dislike the Metalheads, to me it is like a joke, that's why.

But whatever, knock yourself out.

As far as this being the final CivMP Diplogame, I highly doubt that (unless you mean to be completed). I don't think we should call it "An Open Letter to All Nations" because this is not that game, and I don't want this to serve as closure on that game, this is a seperate game with new players and we should decide upon our own title.

And to make things even more special I am going to play as a completley invented Civilization, I just have not found a proper name for them yet... but I am thinking!

I would still like to start in Europe! Unless we are randomizing this one...

[C0ckney]

Damn I must missed this thread, been busy with work and stuff

I would really to be involved with this new game, I am not as experienced as most of the people here but I am commited and enthuiastic (and I can't spell!). If you want any help with custom units, techs etc. then that is my field of expertise.

I hope that you will consider me for a place in this game and if by some miracle I am accepted then I would like to play as the Eygptians or whichever civ is in Afica.

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Windows 98 (windoze) a 32 bit extention of a 16 bit graphical shell for an 8 bit operating system, origalanly coded for a 4 bit processor by a 2 bit company who can't stand one bit of competition!

The United States is a superpower undergoing the difficult transition necessary to becoming a banana republic - Lincon

[Nap Bonaparte]

The " Open Letter to all Nations" thread was started by Frankdog....not JB. That game was played on a random map and was started as a regular civ game. It EVOLVED into a diplo game about half-way through and turned into a total adrenaline rush for 3 months(even more so than Tales from the (Still) Diplomatic FrontII
( I know...I was involved in both games). The mix of players and personalities was what made this game so special. The nuclear exchange at the end of the game was an extension of the diplomacy and World Politik that had been going on and was certainly not a detriment to the enjoyment or authenticity of the game. But be forewarned: "Open Letter to all Nations" and "TFTSDFII" required many months and an incredible amount of dedication to finish.

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" First France......then the WORLD!"

[The Capo]

Alright, well I know for a fact that I am dedicated to the Diplogame genre. Even when it is impossible for me to continue a diplogame I keep tabs on in and in some instances have even added to it (making maps and ****) so I am very loyal.

I have feeling that I can vouch for Ozzy on that same principle. I think what we have had so far is a resurgance of Apolyton players, I mean before we had a select few Apolyton goers, the ones that always were here like Nap, AH, and guys like that. But we are getting more people that are posting threads like "How can I start an MP game" or "Who wants to play I am new" which I think is in indication that people are either tired of the Zone or are just not going there.

Part of situation number #1 (tired of the Zone) could stem from the fact that the games there are impersonal, and give little to no chance of learning how to play. I know this becuase only a few months ago I was one of these new guys. I came here first because before I started MPing, I was addicted to Modpacks and making new units and scenarios (I am currently working on a Thirty Year War scenario, but this thing called a life has stopped me from finishing it even after months of work).

Alright well, back to what I was saying. The thing is, we have new blood here, and I am part of it. And I am tired of the "old guard" assuming that we can't pull this off, we can and we will.

I didn't start getting better at MP until I started playing Diplogames, I played in every Diplogame I could get into, and was frustrated that I was the only person (seemingly) making an effort to add extra dimensions to the game, read my posts, I love to make more out of nothing. I decided I would go back to the zone and try my hand, I mean I hadn't been in a deul in a while and my "Zone rep" may be nonexistant now. But when I got back something strange happened, I kicked some ass. I realized that the Diplogame taught me how to manage a civ without worrying about war first, which is key to a deul despite what most will tell you. A Diplogame is a very impressive teaching tool because it doesn't negate a rookie right at the starting gates, and that is what I think this game should try and do.

I have seen two guys who I consider newer players to the genre "Chris" (don't know his Apy name ,but its in the forums under our Ultradip thing) and Drake. I would like to invite both of them to join in on this game with us, they are good posters, they both play their national characters to the T (sometimes against my nation's wishes!!!!) and have helped to make UltraDip (the first ever Diplogame on a Gigamap) a success, well so far at least.

I have decided to delve into my Irish heritage by playing as the Gaelic Federation in this game, so there ya go.

This game will work guys, no matter what anyone says.

[The Capo]

EUREKA! We should call our Diplogames "The History of the World/Planet Earth"

[drake]

Thank you for the bid Capo, I am definetly into this diplo game idea.

I think compiling a list of "serious" players is a great idea. It would make for a most interesting and enjoyable game, and I'm sure it would have a most compelling story line.

I would be willing to extend a hand in developing a site designed for the event. Of course, if people want to just post here, that is fine I guess.

Scheduling is the most important thing for a diplo game to last, so is there anyone that would propose a a day and time for this game? This could be a major factor in who could participate.

[OzzyKP]

Well in anticipation of this game i went in search of a good world map we could use and found that there weren't any. Only the default world.mp which sucks ass, and the Giga map which is too huge for a decent game in my opinion.

So i was left with the option of making my own map. But then i found that i was hemmed in by the size constraints of the map editor. To solve this i found a program that lets you add to the size. I did this and now i'm working on making the map as hyper realistic as i can.

Stay tuned for updates, and contact me for preliminary work, and i can always use advice by people. So contact me on IM at either "OzzyKP" or "LazerKP" and my name under ICQ is LazerKP. My email is OzzyKP.

Wish me luck.


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Ozzy - King of Metal
Ozzy - Hungarians in Eurodip I
Ozzy - Proud Sayen member
Ozzy - Prez of NYRA, http://nyra.ecg.net

[The Capo]

I believe there is actually a program in the Apy Database that gives you the option of taking any map image (as long as it is blue and green) and then copying it into map form with grasslands down for all land and blue for all water, then you simply fill in the rest, I am not sure if that is what it does, but there is something to that effect that may help you out.

[OzzyKP]

With some assistance by Capo my Real World map is finally done. I sent in the file to apolyton, it should be available soon for download.

Here is pretty much how it looks:




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Ozzy - King of Metal
Ozzy - Hungarians in Eurodip I
Ozzy - Proud Sayen member
Ozzy - Prez of NYRA, http://nyra.ecg.net

[Frank Johnson]

Well I am in...Oz talked me in to it. I'd suggest that anyone interested begin designing their own flags to display by their cities.

[OzzyKP]

Everyone remember that there are two threads for this game, the other thread is located at:
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum2/HTML/001934.html?12

check that out too.

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Ozzy - King of Metal
Ozzy - Hungarians in Eurodip I
Ozzy - Proud Sayen member
Ozzy - Prez of NYRA, http://nyra.ecg.net