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**Kaak** · October 3, 2000, 09:33

Carolus.

I don't think either is okay. I disagree with changing anything about the game. and that is still not a similar comparison.

Ming.

I guess you feel i fall into that "you people" category. I did not say it was okay, merely that the arguement was weak because it was not an accurate comparison. If I thought it was okay, I would have changed my rules.txt, as Eyes tried so many times to get me to do.

~kaak

p.s. This would all go a lot smoother if y'all would actually read what is written and respont to *it* rather than trying to read into it and jumping to conclusions.

p.p.s. Iadkins...you really aren't very good at this whole analogy thing =) might i recomend a logic course or a debate class?

**Ming** · October 3, 2000, 09:46

Kaak... I looked back to the old thread, and I'm not sure which of my comments you are responding too.

I was just saying that if people are going to change the rules files, the opponent should be aware of it, and agree to the changes. Otherwise, it is cheating, pure and simple.

I think you are a man of Honor and above reproach.
If I said anything that you think implied that I thought you weren't, please let me know so I can correct it. It was a pleasure to play you in the past and get my ass kicked. I know you did it an honest fashion, and I have never stated otherwise. I would still love to play you again on settings I enjoy (now refered to as "RAH rules" by many)

So please, if I have offended you anyway, that was not my intent. You are one of the best players out there, and you win fairly!

**Kaak** · October 3, 2000, 10:07

No sir, you haven't offended =) i just thought the "you people" in your last post might have been directed at me, because what i said about the bad analogy might have been misconstrued as consent. no worries!

**CapTVK** · October 3, 2000, 13:25

Well, this certainly was an event...

I've just read the entire thread and was mostly surprised by EoN's reaction that "it wasn't really cheating" until he dropped the charade and confessed. I've had the pleasure of playing Eyes once on a small map and I was beaten, no surprise there.

It never occured to me now, but with the confession of EvC and now Eyes (I hope you can get your life back in order Eyes), I realize we're dealing with a textbook case of trolling.

Trolls post about controversial subjects and react likewise, if people get angry and start reacting it's even better. If you've been around on usenet you'll know what I mean. The trouble with trolls is that they have extreme selfhate and want to redirect that anger onto the world. While they have a habit of antogonizing everyone they come into contact saying they despise everyone and everything, they really despise themselves.

On the subject of cheating with the rules.txt

I now see how much nasty stuff you can do messing with the rules.txt. And I just figured out something. I heard AH say that some of Eyes cities were placed on tundra squares. I'm not saying he cheated there too, but anyone could use this trick!
[*]The host starts the game with a changed rules.txt
[*]Change the characteristics of a low resource square like tundra to 6f,6t,6s (we're going big time here ). Normally I don't even bother clicking on tundra in city range or in the civelopedia, or settle near tundra at all unless I have to, so the chance of getting caught is slim. [*]Host places a few (2-3) cities near or on tundra and starts churning out units.[*]After 15-25 turns or so the hosts feels he's pushing his luck, so he 'drops' the connection.[*]The ex-host asks if he (this time with original rules.txt) or the other player could host. The other player would start up the game with the original rules.txt our cheater is in the clear with tons of settlers,science, gold and other benefits!

There's really no way to catch a cheater this way, you would have to check all the cities in all the saves. And because you're checking with the original rules.txt you won't even know he was cheating! The only thing you would have is some vague evidence, that something doesn't 'fit' with those 3 cities near the poles.

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by CapTVK (edited October 03, 2000).]</font>

**Kaak** · October 3, 2000, 14:21

guys, eyes did nothing more than change the riot factor. He liked building in the artic because of trade from seals, etc. I told Eyes a long time ago to use all the rescources. which might explain him building on tundra. I personally have never seen him build on tundra unless it was near a valuable resource.

**iadkins** · October 3, 2000, 18:39

Kaak's assumption:
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Kaak on 10-03-2000 10:07 AM</font>
No sir, you haven't offended =) i just THOUGHT the "you people" in your last post might have been directed at me, because what i said about the bad analogy might have been misconstrued as consent. no worries!
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Kaak's policy:
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Kaak on 10-03-2000 9:33 AM</font>
I GUESS you feel i fall into that "you people" category..........
This would all go a lot smoother if y'all would actually read what is written and respont to *it* rather than trying to read into it and jumping to conclusions.........
might i recomend a logic course or a debate class?
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
ROTFLMAO!

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*THE DEITY*
#8388924

**Alexander's Horse** · October 3, 2000, 18:51

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Kaak on 10-03-2000 02:21 PM</font>

guys, eyes did nothing more than change the riot factor.

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Well that's all he admits to. How did he find my cities so fast?

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Don't worry, I won't tell anyone. Your secret is safe with me.

**Ming** · October 3, 2000, 19:01

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Kaak on 10-03-2000 02:21 PM</font>
guys, eyes did nothing more than change the riot factor.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

And being an ISCer, what more did he need to do... OH, I forgot... he didn't tell his opponent before they started either...

**Kaak** · October 3, 2000, 19:07

AH: the same way i do.

iadkins: it is amzing how people will take what you say and manipulate it out of context.

I said:
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>your analogy is bad in that what eyes did had the same effect on both players. it did not give one player an advantage that another player did not have.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Ming posted:
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>It's simply unbelievable that people think that changing the rules file AND NOT TELLING YOUR OPPONENT is OK because it effects both people. What a joke.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

I realize that you are a little slower than most of the others around here and lack the ability to see the logical connection between the two statements. Sorry, next time, I will make sure to post a less complicated version for you =·Þ

**Ming** · October 3, 2000, 19:13

Uhhh... Kaak...

I wasn't refering to your comment. I was refering to one of EON's comments

**iadkins** · October 3, 2000, 20:05

Kaak, PMSL
Kaak logic rules(.txt)..... he he

Anyway, to the issue, both players DO NOT have the same advantage if one does not know that the advantage exists - you oversized wombat!!
The smoke keeps wafting around you until you fully concede this point.

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*THE DEITY*
#8388924

**Spider** · October 3, 2000, 20:13

As far as I'm concerned there's a whole lot of smoke around Kaak whether he concedes the point or not. If you hang out by fires your going to get smokey.

**Crustacian** · October 3, 2000, 20:25

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Carolus Rex on 10-03-2000 08:54 AM</font>
"Answer the question, Kaak, the question!"

http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum2/HT...tml?date=08:00

Carolus

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Carolus Rex (edited October 03, 2000).]</font>
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

This is a fair point really. Who really would think it fair to play with changed rules like is presented in this thread without telling anyone. If a person walked into a store with someone who secretly shop lifted but ended up getting caught, they both would go to jail, even though the one had no idea. Why knit pick over "correctness" of analogies? Mine probably sucks too,
BUTTTTTTTT the point still stands and neither Kaak or Eyes have refuted it.

Eyes seems to me to have played with modified rules text deliberately to keep a secret advantage over AH and others, or else he would not ALSO have LIED to him when AH first questioned him about some seeming discrepancies. If Eyes just found it "too teadious to mess with rioters" while playing, or innocently using this while AH had full use also of the same parameters he would not have lied. He had to be exposed first, then he coughed it up amid a flurry of BS. How uterly BOGUS.

Plus I again claim that nobody can consistantly whoop another player of similar skill level by such a huge margine. Yeah it can happen due to one reason or another at times but no one is basically unstoppable IMHO. Not in this game.
But if you take the liberty of allowing yourself some unstated edge (i.e.:cheat), maybe you can. But how much fun can that really be? And to acheave some status of top scores this way, and claim to be "basically unstoppable?!?!"
LOL.

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The journey itself is the thing~Odysseus

**suas333** · October 3, 2000, 23:20

Not to create a war between leaguers and apolytoners, but couldn't you guys have come up with something more original. I mean Eyes of Night coined the phrase "apolyton brat" now instead of league brat how about league _______

suas333
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The way of the league brat...

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